Comments from John Baker on Richard Abanes article

June 19, 2008

My friend and brother in the Lord John Baker commented on Abanes website on Richards rant about my most recent article about him. I cant call Abanes post a rebuttel because Richard didnt address anything I had to say in my article. Its interesting that Richard allowed John to comment. It is also interesting to note that Richard edited John’s comment before he posted it. He didnt edit what John had to say but the scripture John quoted.

 Now Abanes has a right to moderate as he see’s fit on his blog. I no longer allow comments here from Richard and thats my right as well.

Here is Johns quote as it stands today on Richards blog

 

“I have not intention of getting into an extended exchange with Mr. Abanes.

So I will comment once and leave it at that.

First off you operate on a very deceptive double standard.

You become very upset that valid and needful Discernment Ministries bring to light the very serious and real apostasy and active denial of many of the fundamentals of the Christian Faith by Rick Warren and yourself, and also the very valid and needful bringing to light of yours and Rick Warren’s defence of others who openly adhere to and promote Anti-Christ Ideologies.

You try to call them Slanderers & Divisive “Sinners”, however Mr. Abanes again you use deception in defining them as such. The deception is this: What you define as the “Body od Christ” is not Biblical. The real “Body of Christ” is a spiritual body and a spiritual unity. It is NOT a Visible Body of people who by simply calling themselves “Christian” become part of that real “body of Christ”.

A person is also not part of that real “Body of Christ” simply because they SAY they hold to the fundamentals of the Christian Faith. As you and Rick Warren Do, while at the same time what you do on a daily basis works to dismantle, seriously corrupt, or make “of none affect” those fundamentals of the Christian Faith.

And here is an insight for you: Steering people to or emphasizing a Psychologically or intellect only based “Christian” faith is part of dismantling the Christian Faith.

It does not validate your position to roll out a list of names who support your views. What validates anyones position in regards to whether they are indeed following a true Christian Faith is two things: The adheranc of their beliefs and daily actions to the Word of God AND the Witness of the Holy Spirit.

I will leave you with this passage in the hope that your blind eyes may be opened:

John 3:1-21 There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” …. [SNIP – poster quoted entire passage, please read at biblegateway.com]

. . . . to Believe in the Christian sense is not simply an affirmation to a set of principles. Belief in Christianity is an active word. And it is not activated by you! It is activated by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Your actions and words show that you do not have the indwelling of the Holy spirit which is THE Requirement to understand the Spiritual things of God.

If you do not have that indwelling then you are left with what you do and that is fallen fleshly intellectualism just like Nicodemus

God Bless,
John Baker

End of comment from Richards blog-Now here is Johns comments to me and his post as it was originally submitted on Richards blog-

Tim,

 

Sure go ahead, He posted the comment but took out most of the citation from John 3:1-21. Stating that if people wanted to read the entire passage they could go to biblegateway.com

 

I find that very telling, as the entire passage was a key part of my comment.

 

And I agree with you. Mr Abanes just doesn’t get it. And I believe it is because he has NOT been spiritually regenerated. He is an Intellectual (naturally minded) “Christian” therefore he cannot discern the things of the Spirit. Just as the Apostle Paul said in 1 Corinthians 2:13-16:

 

These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.  But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.  But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For “who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

 

God Bless,

 

John

 Now here is John’s original post in its entirety

I left the comment below on Mr Abanes web Site and I am leaving it at that.

 

I have no intention of getting into an extended exchange with Mr. Abanes.

So I will comment once and leave it at that.

First off you operate on a very deceptive double standard.

You become very upset that valid and needful Discernment Ministries bring to light the very serious and real apostasy and active denial of many of the fundamentals of the Christian Faith by Rick Warren and yourself, and also the very valid and needful bringing to light of yours and Rick Warren’s defence of others who openly adhere to and promote Anti-Christ Ideologies.

You try to call them Slanderers & Divisive “Sinners”, however Mr. Abanes again you use deception in defining them as such. The deception is this: What you define as the “Body od Christ” is not Biblical. The real “Body of Christ” is a spiritual body and a spiritual unity. It is NOT a Visible Body of people who by simply calling themselves “Christian” become part of that real “body of Christ”.

A person is also not part of that real “Body of Christ” simply because they SAY they hold to the fundamentals of the Christian Faith. As you and Rick Warren Do, while at the same time what you do on a daily basis works to dismantle, seriously corrupt, or make “of none affect” those fundamentals of the Christian Faith.

And here is an insight for you: Steering people to or emphasizing a Psychologically or intellect only based “Christian” faith is part of dismantling the Christian Faith.

It does not validate your position to roll out a list of names who support your views. What validates anyones position in regards to whether they are indeed following a true Christian Faith is two things: The adheranc of their beliefs and daily actions to the Word of God AND the Witness of the Holy Spirit.

I will leave you with this passage in the hope that your blind eyes may be opened:

John 3:1-21

There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”

Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”

Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

to Believe in the Christian sense is not simply an affirmation to a set of principles. Belief in Christianity is an active word. And it is not activated by you! It is activated by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Your actions and words show that you do not have the indwelling of the Holy spirit which is THE Requirement to understand the Spiritual things of God.

If you do not have that indwelling then you are left with what you do and that is fallen fleshly intellectualism just like Nicodemus

God Bless,

John Baker

 

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