Letters to Richard Abanes Concerning Ken Blanchard and the New Age Movement

March 24, 2008

Letters to Richard Abanes Concerning Ken Blanchard and the New Age Movement

This is from my friend and brother in the Lord Bud Press.
If you are not familiar with Richard Abanes he is the unofficial apologist for Rick Warrens faith and all things purpose driven. Tim

Letters to Richard Abanes Concerning

Ken Blanchard and the New Age Movement

by Bud Press, Director

Christian Research Service

http://www.christianresearchservice.com

March 24, 2008

Introduction: Christian Research Service, along with other discernment ministries, has spent over three years researching Ken Blanchard and his Lead Like Jesus movement. Blanchard, the co-founder of Lead Like Jesus and Chief Spiritual Officer of The Ken Blanchard Companies, claims to be a Christian, but has amassed an incredible track-record of involvement with and participation in the New Age Movement.

While rumors abound about when Blanchard became a Christian, on page VIII of his 2005 book, Lead Like Jesus, Blanchard states he began reading the Bible “When I turned my life over to the Lord in the late 1980s.”

Further, on page 1 of his Spring 2007 article, “to Quack or to Soar?” Blanchard states that he “became a Christian in 1988,” and further states that,

Henry Blackerby and I agree on this: He says the great spiritual revolution will come from businesspeople by demonstration, not proclamation. It will not come from evangelism.

I pray every morning, “Lord, protect me from your people.” I have never met such vicious people as Christians. They want to be right. My big disillusionment since I’ve become a Christian is that we’ve got the worst business model in the world. I was in suburban Chicago and asked a guy there, “How many churches here have Jesus central to them?” He said about 1,200. I said, “Do you think Jesus is a good product?” He said, “Yeah, the best.” So I said, “What if I wanted to franchise Him?”

Blanchard’s statements tie-in with the following from Rebecca Barnes’ May 20, 2004 article, “Ken Blanchard: Serving to lead like Jesus”:

Blanchard said he is disappointed in Christians, too, because they aren’t using Jesus’ techniques more. “The biggest gap in Christianity is between knowing and doing. I mean, why don’t people who know better behave better,” he said.

“People ask me if I’m interested in evangelism. I’m not. I think the next big evangelism movement will be driven by behaving differently.”

[ http://www.churchcentral.com/nw/s/template/Article.html/id/19303 ]

Ken Blanchard’s words are crystal clear. But the Apostle Paul’s inspired words offer a stern rebuke:

I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: PREACH THE WORD; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, EXHORT, with great patience and instruction. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, DO THE WORK OF AN EVANGELIST, fulfill your ministry (2 Timothy 4:1-5, emp. added).

And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus’ sake (2 Corinthians 4:3-5).

Norman’s a-Peale-ing influence

It is important to note that on page four of Ken Blanchard’s “to Quack or to Soar” article, he states that,

I wrote a book with Norman Vincent Peale about ethics. I wasn’t even a believer at the time, but I was open. That’s when I became a Christian. We decided there were two problems with being ethical and leading like Jesus. The first was knowing the right thing to do. I think most people know the right thing to do. The biggest problem is doing what you know.

The book Blanchard referred to is the The Power of Ethical Management (1988) which, as of this writing, is still promoted on The Ken Blanchard Companies website ( http://www.blanchardlearning.com/templates/product.asp?product=10264 ).

Concerning Norman Vincent Peale and his spirituality, Watchman Fellowship’s Index of Cults and Religions states that he,

Was a popular writer, promoter of the belief in the power of positive thinking popularized through the interfaith magazine, Guideposts. Peale’s views of Christianity were heavily influenced by his mentor Ernest Holmes, the founder of Religious Science, and also reflected the philosophies of New Thought, and Unity. [hyperlinks their]

In a 1990 article titled, “Norman Vincent Peale,” Watchman Fellowship informs the reader about Peale’s endorsements of and ties to the New Age Movement:

According to Dave Hunt’s bulletin Peale wrote in the Masonic Magazine, New Age, concerning his involvement, “Men of different religions meet in fellowship and brotherhood under the fatherhood of God.” Peale also demonstrates that he is much more in alignment with the New Age Movement and its accompanying belief categories, than he is in Christianity. [The Watchman Expositor, http://www.watchman.org/reltop/peale.htm, hyperlinks theirs]

Peale first became suspect when he consistently began endorsing New Age/Occultic writers. [Ibid.]

When one examines many of the self-help, New Age, Occult books, references and quotes from Norman Vincent Peale frequently occur. [Ibid.]

Peale consistently operates with New Age doctrine and practices, emphasizing the creative power of thought and that consciousness is true reality and aligning your consciousness by meditation or affirmation, will automatically bring what you desire. [Ibid.]

It is obvious that Norman Vincent Peale’s New Age spirituality had an effect on Ken Blanchard. In 1997, Watchman Fellowship correctly identified Peale and Blanchard as New Age:

In A 2nd Helping of Chicken Soup for the Soul can be found at least 38 New Age or Mormon contributors or attributions, including M. Scott Peck, Steve Andreas, Sai Baba, Martin Buber, Gandhi, William James, Joseph Campbell, Leo Buscaglia, Napoleon Hill, Norman Vincent Peale, Benjamin Hoff, Ken Blanchard (Please See Update), Canfield, Hansen, and T.M. promoter Harold Bloomfield. [Craig Branch, “Chicken Soup for the Soul Reviewed,” http://www.watchman.org/na/chiksoup.htm, hyperlinks theirs]

More New Age endorsements

While Ken Blanchard claims to have been a Christian for the last twenty years, he has amassed an incredible track-record of direct involvement in the New Age Movement. In addition to what has been researched thus far, here are a few updates:

— Deep Current Technology: “Deep Current uses mind/body science” and “offers five-minute, interactive modules that both integrate and teach the most widely used mind/body techniques: progressive relaxation, meditation, visualization, cognitive reframing, workplace yoga, and autogenics” (click HERE and HERE ).

Susan Greene, co-founder, has “studied with such leading-edge thinkers as Peter Senge, Edwards Deming, Ken Blanchard, Tom Peters, and Stephen Covey, helping to translate their ‘work’ into the workplace. Personally, she has been practicing yoga since the third grade and has had the honor of sitting with Jack Kornfield in satsung at Spirit Rock Meditation Center for the past 10 years” ( http://www.deep-current.com/investors/ExecutiveSummary.pdf, page 3).

— Ken Blanchard is scheduled as a keynote speaker for The Bob Pike Group “15th Annual Training and Performance Solutions Conference” (September 28-October 3, 2008, http://www.bobpikegroup.com/pages.asp?pageid=35420 ). The conference also includes,

Stretching, Breathing and Yoga Priscilla Shumway: Join this sunrise session to start your day with stretching, breathing and Yoga techniques to wake up your body and brain. Dress comfortably ready to flex your muscles! Explore how we can incorporate them to stretch your next classroom experience.

[ http://www.bobpikegroup.com/pages.asp?pageid=35420#201 ], emp. theirs).

Shumway is a faculty member and a Senior Training Consultant with The Bob Pike Group

( http://www.bobpikegroup.com/apps/staff/default.asp?relationid=278556 ).

— Todd Durkin Enterprises (TDE) specializes in therapeutic massage, Pilates, and yoga ( http://www.todddurkin.com/featured-clients.html ). Marilou Ramos, a TDE staff member, is a Reiki practioner and is “certified in hot stone therapy, pregnancy massage and Zen-Touch acupressure work as well” ( http://www.todddurkin.com/tde-staff/marilou-ramos-yoga-2.html ).

The Ken Blanchard Companies is a “Featured Client” of TDE, and is on the TDE “Distinguished Corporate Client’s List” at http://www.todddurkin.com/featured-clients.html .

Of Todd Durkin, Ken Blanchard testifies that,

“Todd has the unique ability to bring fitness down to a personal level. His approach challenges each person to be their best and make improvements that are achievable. His knowledge and enthusiasm are a true inspiration. This is a can’t miss program that will add value to any meeting or conference.”

[ http://www.todddurkin.com/testimonials/testimonials.html ]

Todd and his team are a great addition to any meeting if you care about more than the heads of the participants. They will stimulate the heart, body and spirit of your people. Do it and everyone’s heads will function better too. [ http://www.todddurkin.com/corporate-programs/index.php ]

And Ken Blanchard remains an active member of the New Age Hoffman Institute

( http://www.hoffmaninstitute.org/ ), established by Bob Hoffman, psychic.

Damage control 101

Despite the staggering amount of evidence, and despite the fact that Abanes admits on his own website that “Ken Blanchard has either endorsed or written forewords for many books that advance beliefs/ideas clearly at odds with biblical Christianity” ( http://abanes.com/blanchardproblems.html ), as of this writing Abanes maintains:

Nearly three years have passed now since the controversy, and I have heard Blanchard speak on various occasions. And by his words and deeds, I can only believe that he has truly fought, and continues to fight, to grow in the grace and knowledge of his Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. [“Ken Blanchard and Rick Warren: The Truth Behind the Controversy,” http://abanes.com/warren_blanchard.html ]

Tragically, Blanchard’s past mistakes of judgment have provided more than enough ammunition for Warren’s critics to continue attacking both Blanchard and Warren (especially Lighthouse Trails Research Project, the so-called “discernment” ministry that can arguably be credited with having started the whole controversy (Lighthouse Trails: The Blanchard Bashers). Blanchard’s admission of errors, his willingness to learn more about doctrinal discernment, his attempts to express regret over decisions he had made, and his ongoing work to spread the Gospel have meant nothing to such individuals. They have continued to resurrect the old controversy from 2005, declaring that Blanchard has not done enough to prove he has truly repented. As of 2008, this is basically where the Ken Blanchard controversy stands. [Ibid., hyperlinks theirs]

Ken Blanchard is no New Ager. [ http://abanes.com/LTRP_PressRelease.html ]

Admitting to error or sin, promising to right a wrong, but continuing in error or sin is not an apology or repentance. If a person claims to be in fellowship with Jesus Christ, but is walking in darkness, that person is a liar. There is no gray area! God’s word is final:

If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us (1 John 1:6-10).

Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin (James 4:17).

Glorifying the guru

To his credit, Richard Abanes correctly identifies Jim Ballard as a New Ager, and as one who,

…advances and promotes New Age teachings, specifically those of Paramahansa Yogananda of the Self-Realization Fellowship New Age cult, which is stands in total opposition to the teachings of Christianity. [ http://abanes.com/blanchardproblems.html ]

But advancing and promoting New Age teachings and Paramahansa Yogananda and Self-Realization Fellowship is precisely what Ken Blanchard did in the Foreword of Jim Ballard’s 2007 book, Little Wave and Old Swell–which was “Inspired by Paramahansa Yogananda”–a deceased Hindu guru! (For further details, refer to “Ken Blanchard Endorses Book ‘Inspired’ by Hindu Guru” at http://www.christianresearchservice.com/KenBlanchard9.htm )

And according to his website, Ballard is “currently at work on a sequel to Little Wave and Old Swell” ( http://www.littlewave.org/links.htm ). Will Ken Blanchard endorse it as well?

The late Paramahansa Yogananda tried to redefine Jesus Christ and rip-and-shred God’s holy word, but that which he tried was to his own destruction (2 Peter 2:1-3; 2 Corinthians 11:13; Matthew 7:15; John 3:18-19; John 8:24).

Yogananda was responsible for deceiving untold numbers of people worldwide. Yet, on the homepage of Jim Ballard’s Little Wave and Old Swell website, Blanchard encourages the reader to,

Enjoy this story. Read it many times. Let it speak to your heart and reintroduce you to the wonder that breathes from everything in the world ( http://www.littlewave.org/index.htm ).

Leading people to Paramahansa Yogananda isn’t leading like Jesus! It is classic in-your-face deception designed to condition the innocent and unwary into accepting, without reservation, the false prophets and false teachers of our day.

But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived (2 Timothy 3:13). It is imperative that Christians awaken to the deception in their midst, and stand strong for Jesus Christ and the truth of God’s holy word.

Letters to Richard Abanes

The following letters from Christian Research Service to Richard Abanes are self-explanatory. While Abanes did reply, his one e-mail contained no rebuttal to the documentation contained in the letters.

Abanes’ reply contained a copyright disclaimer. While the letters to Abanes make it crystal clear that “…any-and-all replies will be subject to public scrutiny,” Christian Research Service has chosen to refrain from posting his reply publicly–but reserves the right to do so in the future.

Letter #1:

March 11, 2008

Richard Abanes

Pop cuLTuRE MiX

http://abanes.com

Dear Richard:

I have spent a considerable amount of time on your website reviewing your articles, “Lighthouse Trails: The Blanchard Bashers” and “Ken Blanchard and Rick Warren: The Truth Behind the Controversy,” and offer the following for your consideration.

Since Lighthouse Trails and others cited in your articles are capable of speaking for themselves, my comments are specific to the issues surrounding Ken Blanchard. Please take the time to read them carefully.

As one who has spent the last three years researching Ken Blanchard and his involvement in the New Age Movement, I am very concerned that you aren’t telling the whole story. Your readers, as well as those who promote and support Blanchard’s Lead Like Jesus, deserve to know both sides of the issue.

It is important to note that in the last paragraph of your article, “RUMOR CONTROL” (“TRUTH: MY PERSONAL VIEWS OF IT”), you state that,

…in our fallen world, many forms of evil masquerade as innocent, harmless and fun. They are often accepted with little evalutaion or criticism, especially when they are popular and entertaining. Yet Paul calls us to test everything, hold on to the good and avoid every kind of evil (1 Thessalonians5 :21-22).” And so, for the record, let me plainly state that objective/ultimate truth does indeed exist and that it is without a doubt knowable/accessible. [Emp. theirs, http://abanes.com/rumorcontrol.html ]

Yes, truth does exist and is knowable and accessible. There exists a marriage between truth and solid documentation, of which there can be no divorce. Standing for truth–regardless of the outcome–separates the men from the boys.

Now, for the benefit of yourself and your readers, here are a few reasons why you should consider revising your statements concerning Ken Blanchard and his participation in the New Age Movement:

1. In your article, “Ken Blanchard and Rick Warren: The Truth Behind the Controversy,” you inform the reader about: your contact with Blanchard and his Lead Like Jesus staff, Blanchard’s statement and “promise” to “exercise better discernment in the future,” and Watchman Fellowship’s involvement with Ken Blanchard.

Your article also includes excerpts from James Walker’s July 25, 2005 “Ken Blanchard Update.”

Continuing, you state that, “I eventually came to find out that Blanchard was no New Ager,” that Blanchard called you personally, and that Blanchard “assured” you that “he was going to work very hard to learn more about doctrinal matters and grow spiritually as the years progressed, using the controversy as a wake-up call for him.”

But despite the efforts to reason with Ken Blanchard, and despite the public exposure of Blanchard’s involvement in the New Age Movement, he has yet to awaken to the damage he has and is doing to the cause of Christ. At present, he is endangering the spiritual welfare of innocent, unwary Christians worldwide.

Has Ken Blanchard honored his “promise”? Has he exercised “better discernment” and stopped endorsing New Age authors and books? Has he publicly repented, retracted, and renounced his ties with the New Age movement and totally separated from New Agers? Has he surrounded himself with solid, Bible-based Christians? Here are a few important facts to consider:

Fact: Ken Blanchard has not kept the “promise” he made in 2005. His July 2005 statements have long since disappeared from his Lead Like Jesus website.

Fact: Ken Blanchard continues to endorse New Age authors, is involved in New Age practices, remains an active member of the New Age Hoffman Institute, and still sits on the Hoffman Institute’s Advisory Council. He and his wife, Margie, contribute financially to the Hoffman Institute.

Fact: The Ken Blanchard Companies is still listed as one of the Attendees of the New Age Heartland Circle’s Thought Leader Gatherings.

Fact: While Blanchard claims to be Christian, he refers people to Buddha, Mohammed, Mahatma Ghandi, the Dalai Lama, and deceased Hindu guru Paramahansa Yogananda, and honors them as “great prophets” and “spiritual leaders.”

Fact: Watchman Fellowship was one of the “PARTICIPATING SPONSORS” of Blanchard’s Lead Like Jesus, despite the fact that New Agers–such as Mark Victor Hansen–sat on the Lead Like Jesus Board.

Fact: The list of Lead Like Jesus’ Board of Directors has long since disappeared from the Lead Like Jesus website.

Fact: James Walker’s July 25, 2005 “Ken Blanchard Update” has been removed from Watchman Fellowship’s website.

James Walker is the president of Watchman Fellowship. Once it was learned that his update on Blanchard had been removed, I wrote him on December 12, 2007 and asked if his update had been removed permanently or if it was a glitch in the system. I also asked Walker that in light of the overwhelming documentation on Blanchard (see recommended reading below), would he or would he not provide a statement on Ken Blanchard?

As of this writing, there has been no reply from Walker, nor has he provided a statement.

Presently, the only reference to Ken Blanchard on Watchman Fellowship’s website is Craig Branch’s 1997 article, “Chicken Soup for the Soul Reviewed.” Branch, formerly of Watchman Fellowship, now the director of the Apologetics Resource Center, is a former Unitarian and a noted authority on the New Age Movement. In his article, Branch included Ken Blanchard along with other New Agers, stating that:

In A 2nd Helping of Chicken Soup for the Soul can be found at least 38 New Age or Mormon contributors or attributions, including M. Scott Peck, Steve Andreas, Sai Baba, Martin Buber, Gandhi, William James, Joseph Campbell, Leo Buscaglia, Napoleon Hill, Norman Vincent Peale, Benjamin Hoff, Ken Blanchard (Please See Update), Canfield, Hansen, and T.M. promoter Harold Bloomfield.

[ http://www.watchman.org/na/chiksoup.htm ]

Note that the above “Ken Blanchard (Please See Update)” hyperlink leads the reader back to Watchman Fellowship’s homepage. Note also that Branch included Norman Vincent Peale and Mark Victor Hansen as New Agers, that Blanchard and Peale co-authored a book, and that Hansen sat on the Lead Like Jesus Board of Directors.

For verification, you may want to contact Walker and ask him why he removed his “Ken Blanchard Update” and why Watchman Fellowship remains tight-lipped on this issue.

E-mail: jwalker@watchman.org

Phone: (817) 277-0023

FAX: (817) 277-8098

And, since you know Ken Blanchard personally, you may want to contact him and ask why he has not honored the promise he made in 2005, and why he is still deeply involved in the New Age Movement.

Lead Like Jesus

Toll-free (800) 383-6890

Phone: (706) 863-8494

FAX: (706) 863-9372

The Ken Blanchard Companies

Phone (800) 728-6000

FAX: (760) 489-8407

For the record, no one faults Watchman Fellowship for their efforts to reason with Ken Blanchard. Sadly, Blanchard deceived them and continues doing the same to others, including you. Now, years later, he is demonstrating his true colors.

At this point, it is important to allow Scripture to demonstrate what happened 2,000 years ago when the Apostle Paul encountered the New Agers of his day:

Many also of those who had believed kept coming, confessing and disclosing their practices. And many of those who practiced magic brought their books together and began burning them in the sight of everyone; and they counted up the price of them and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver. So the word of the Lord was growing mightily and prevailing (Acts 19:18-20).

Once saved, the New Agers became Christians–not half-Christian and half-New Age. They repented and renounced their ungodly, occultic practices, and stopped acknowledging, affirming, endorsing, promoting and lending credibility to their occultic beliefs. They further demonstrated their sincerity by burning their occultic materials for everyone to see. Once they turned their lives over to Jesus Christ, they no longer endangered the spiritual welfare of the innocent and unwary.

Keep in mind that on page VIII of his 2005 book, Lead Like Jesus, Blanchard claims to have been a Christian since the “late 1980’s.” Elsewhere, Blanchard claims that he “became a Christian in 1988” (“to Quack or to Soar,” Spring 2007). Thus, Blanchard is not a “new” Christian, as many have been led to believe.

Furthermore, every Christian is called to evangelize the lost and be a good witness for Jesus Christ. But despite Jesus’ command to Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation (Mark 16:15), Ken Blanchard has made his interest in evangelism crystal clear:

“People ask me if I’m interested in evangelism. I’m not. I think the next big evangelism movement will be driven by behaving differently” (Rebecca Barnes, “Ken Blanchard: Serving to lead like Jesus,” May 20, 2004, http://www.churchcentral.com/nw/s/id/19303/template/Article.html ).

God’s inspired word demonstrates the difference between those who truly love and cherish Jesus Christ in their hearts, and those who claim to be Christian on the outside:

These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men (Matthew 15:8-9).

Ken Blanchard talks about Jesus and has convinced many that he is a Christian. But Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and many New Agers talk about Jesus and claim to be Christian

( http://www.christiannewage.com/index.html ). Moreover, in your September 13, 2007 Pop cuLTuRE MiX blog article, “Is J.K. Rowling REALLY A Christian,” you cite the Harry Potter author stating that, “Well, I do believe in God.”

There is a big difference between talking about Jesus and sharing Him from the heart. There is a big difference between one who claims to be a Christian and one who has surrendered his life to Jesus Christ. And in the case of Ken Blanchard, there is a big difference between leading like Jesus and worshipping Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

Jesus said, My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand (John 10:27-28).

Cultists, occultists, false prophets, and heretics carry baggage filled with deception, lies, doctrines of demons and, man-made gods. In Matthew 7:15, Jesus clearly warns the believer to Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. In verses 16-20, Jesus clearly informs the believer of the big difference between a true and false prophet, and that both will be known by their fruits, whether good or bad.

In John 14:6, Jesus said, I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. Jesus Christ is God Himself in human form, and is exclusive to every man-made, fabricated “messiah” and “savior” and “god.”

Speaking favorably of and leading people to Buddha, Mohammed, Mahatma Ghandi, the Dalai Lama, Paramahansa Yogananda, New Agers, and New Age organizations (as Blanchard does), flat-out contradicts Jesus’ words and denies His exclusivity and deity. Leading people to those that deny that Jesus is the only way, truth, and life is the same as saying, Jesus is okay, but there are others who are just as good.

A glaring example of this is Blanchard’s endorsement of New Ager Jim Ballard’s June 2007 book, Little Wave and Old Swell, which, by the way, was “Inspired by Paramahansa Yogananda.” Blanchard writes:

“Enjoy this story. Read it many times. Let it speak to your heart and reintroduce you to the wonder that breathes from everything in the world.” [ http://www.littlewave.org/index.htm ]

One doesn’t have to wonder about the “wonder” Ballard and Blanchard want to “reintroduce” to the reader. In fact, Ballard, a Yogananda devotee, explains what the “wonder” is on pages 62 and 82:

Ommm-m-m-m-m… Ommm-m-m-m-m… As Little Wave listened, he realized the Sound was coming from inside him, all around him, everywhere. It was the Voice of Everything.

Help me to feel my connection with the vast Ocean of Life, the Oneness within all things.

In the Foreword of Ballard’s Little Wave and Old Swell, Blanchard opens a floodgate of deception for unwary Christians, and serves to cause further distancing between Yogananda devotees and Jesus Christ:

The fact is, Yogananda loved Jesus, and Jesus would have loved Yogananda. Every year, the Self-Realization Fellowship headquarters in Los Angeles–as well as all its temples and meditation groups throughout the world–hold a full-day Christmas event. It is a time of reverent reflection, with periodic interruptions to listen to taped messages of Yogananda’s love for Jesus and his teachings. The way I see it, love is love. [pp. viii-ix]

Blanchard’s stating that Paramahansa Yogananda “loved Jesus” and his favorable mention of Self-Realization Fellowship is enough to make one’s skin crawl. Yogananda’s teachings on “Jesus” are so far out they couldn’t be tracked by the Hubble telescope! Blanchard’s statements demonstrate his lack of knowledge on what Yogananda believed about Jesus and Who the real Jesus Christ is.

The Bible warns about Yogananda and his “Jesus” in Galatians 1:6-9 and 2 Corinthians 11:3-4. Prior to his death, Yogananda defiled and distorted the gospel of Jesus Christ, was deceived by Satan, preached a counterfeit Jesus, was influenced by a counterfeit spirit, and was under a divine curse. Yet, Ken Blanchard considers Yogananda a great spiritual leader and recommends a book that was “Inspired” by Yogananda.

For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that theyare enemies of the cross of Christ, whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things (Philippians 3:18-19).

Paramahansa Yogananda was an enemy of the cross of Christ. But which is worst, an enemy of the cross or one who promotes the enemy? The Bible answers this question in 2 Corinthians 11:13-15:

For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.

Leading people to enemies of the cross and their demon-filled baggage is not only an exercise in reckless abandon, it angers God, carries severe consequences for the precious souls for whom Jesus died for, and drives the unsaved deeper into sin and further away from Jesus Christ. Judgement of the unsaved, hell, and eternal separation from God is real.

Then the sons of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD and served the Baals, and they forsook the LORD, the God of their fathers, who had brought them out of the land of Egypt, and followed other gods from among the gods of the peoples who

were around them, and bowed themselves down to them; thus they provoked the LORD to anger (Judges 2:11-12).

Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins (John 8:24).

Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son (2 John 1:9).

Ken Blanchard isn’t leading like Jesus. He is, however, leading both the Christian and non-Christian into harm’s way and causing both to stumble (Matthew 18:6-7). This is why Ken Blanchard, and those like him, must be exposed.

Thus, the question that needs to be asked is: Is Ken Blanchard a Christian? If he is, then everyone who pays lip-service to Jesus should be viewed as Christian–including Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, New Agers and, J.K. Rowling. And if talking about Jesus and claiming to lead like Jesus makes one a Christian, then apologists and cult-evangelists worldwide need to find something else to do with their time.

For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it (Matthew 7:14).

On the outside, Blanchard talks-the-Christian-talk, but on the inside, he is a wolf in sheep’s clothing, whose New Age fruit is rotten to the core.

Now I urge you, brethren, keep your eye on those who cause dissensions and hindrances contrary to the teaching which you learned, and turn away from them. For such men are slaves, not of our Lord Christ but of their own appetites; and by their smooth and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the unsuspecting (Romans 16:17-18).

2. In the last paragraph of your article, “Lighthouse Trails: The Blanchard Bashers”

( http://abanes.com/LTRP_PressRelease.html ), your “2008 Update” states that,

As of early 2008, Lighthouse Trails was still making the very same false accusations about Ken Blanchard and Rick Warren that they were making back in 2005, going so far as to devote an entire page to the ever-present danger, as they see it. The page includes the same information above, as well as a resoundingly clear rejection of Blanchard’s attempts to rectify the situation by: a) expressing his regret/sorrow over his mistakes; b) seeking the help of Watchman Fellowship to learn more about Christian doctrine; and c) working harder to be more careful about what books/people he endorses.

Please know that a large percentage of the documentation on Ken Blanchard and his involvement with the New Age Movement was provided to Lighthouse Trails by myself and colleagues–some of whom are former New Agers. Thus, while broken links and webpages that mysteriously disappear overnight can’t be prevented, the documentation I provide to other ministries and include in my articles is solid and speaks for itself.

Had Blanchard never co-founded Lead Like Jesus; had he never became the “Chief Spiritual Officer” of The Ken Blanchard Companies; had he never claimed to be a Christian in the first place, we may have never heard of Ken Blanchard, and the name “Ken Blanchard” would be just another name in an ocean of New Agers.

Blanchard wasn’t forced into the New Age, he made a choice. Nevertheless, I pray that God will be merciful, open his eyes to the truth, and grant him repentance (2 Timothy 2:25).

With the above in mind, if there is any doubt about Ken Blanchard being a New Ager, please refer to my November 26, 2007 article, “Ken Blanchard Endorses Book ‘Inspired’ by Hindu Guru” at http://www.christianresearchservice.com/KenBlanchard9.htm. Once read, if you continue to maintain that Blanchard isn’t a New Ager, please don’t get upset when Christians wonder if you suffer from an acute case of Don’t confuse me with the facts my mind is made up.

Our task is to tell the truth in love, and pour the whole truth into the barrels of confusion, controversy, and deception. One cannot be a practicing Christian and practicing New Ager at the same time. One cannot fellowship with Jesus Christ and fellowship with occultic, New Age paganism at the same time. One cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons

(1 Corinthians 10:21).

Ken Blanchard is a false brethren and a wolf is sheep’s clothing (Galatians 2:4-5; Matthew 7:15; Acts 20:28-29). Outwardly, he pays lip-service to Jesus Christ, but inwardly, he honors New Age organizations, authors, books, practices, demonic doctrines, and pagan gods (Matthew 15:7-9).

Words are important. Words can encourage or discourage, build-up or destroy. When misused, words will return to haunt the writer. This is why it is important that you revise your statements concerning Ken Blanchard and his participation in the New Age Movement. After all, once informed of the truth, surely you wouldn’t purposely deceive your readers by not telling the other side of the story, would you?

Finally, you have my permission to post this letter on your website and blogs, but only in its entirety. Please know that this letter and any-and-all replies will be subject to public scrutiny.

Thank you, Richard. I look forward to your reply in a timely manner.

In Christian love,

Bud Press, Director

Christian Research Service

http://www.christianresearchservice.com

Jude 3

Recommended reading:

Watchman Fellowship Identifies Ken Blanchard as New Age 1997

Letter to Ken Blanchard: With Love and Concern 7/21/05

Update on Ken Blanchard: Actions Speak Louder than Words 8/21/05

UPDATE ON KEN BLANCHARD: You Will Know Them By Their Fruits 9/20/05

Ken Blanchard Still Endorsing the New Age (6 Months later) 2/11/06

An Open Letter to James Walker and Watchman Fellowship 2/26/06

Ken Blanchard Endorses Book ‘Inspired’ by Hindu Guru 11/26/07

Bud Press is a Christian Investigative Researcher and the Director of Christian Research Service. CRS is a discernment ministry that provides information, documentation, and referral on a wide variety of issues to the body of Christ and the Christian news media worldwide. All correspondence is subject to public scrutiny.

Letter #2:

March 17, 2008

Richard Abanes

Pop cuLTuRE MiX

http://abanes.com

Dear Richard:

I have read your letter of March 13 carefully and prayerfully. Frankly, your statements are quite disturbing, and left me questioning your ability as an “Award-winning journalist” ( http://abanes.com/synopsHP.html ).

Equally disturbing is the fact that you carry a short list of Ken Blanchard’s involvement in the New Age on your website, but continue to maintain he isn’t a New Ager ( http://abanes.com/blanchardproblems.html ).

While you may not have been totally aware of Ken Blanchard’s continued involvement in the New Age since 2005, you are now. And no amount of excuses, spin-doctoring, and damage control on your part will change that fact. This is serious business, and the lives of those whom Jesus Christ died for hang in the balance.

Therefore, I encourage you to post my correspondence with you on your website and blog, provided it is in its entirety. Doing so will give your readers the other side of the story on Ken Blanchard and Lead Like Jesus, and will serve to prevent the gullible, innocent, and unwary from stumbling.

In addition, please feel free to link to my articles on Ken Blanchard and Lead Like Jesus, especially my “Letter to Ken Blanchard: With Love and Concern” at

http://www.christianresearchservice.com/KenBlanchard4.htm .

I close with your own words from your February 27, 2008 post in the Phoenix Preacher blog at http://phoenixpreacher.com/cms/?p=2625 :

1. NO one is beyond correction!

2. Someone who is caught in sin, must have that sin revealed to them, and if they will not repent, you need to take it to the church. And then, if they still will not change thier ways, you are to cut them off.

3. Just a little bit of leaven can leaven the whole lump. That is why sin cannot be tolerated.

4. Everyone needs to be held accountable for what they say publicly.

5. No one should be allowed to divide the Body of Christ.

6. The shepherds of God’s flock have the responsibility of leading God’s people in truth and according to scripture.

7. Do not gossip! One of the worst things you can do in a church is to gossip.

I encourage you to practice what you preach, lest your words return to haunt you.

Finally, based on your March 13 reply, I feel any further attempt to reason with you would prove futile. Should you have a change of heart, please feel free to contact me.

In the meantime, I will remember you in my prayers.

Sincerely in Christ,

Bud Press, Director

Christian Research Service

http://www.christianresearchservice.com

Jude 3

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34 Responses to “Letters to Richard Abanes Concerning Ken Blanchard and the New Age Movement”

  1. I have emailed Bud (several days ago, now), expressing my willingness to do an update on Blanchard. But he has not responded. I can only conclude that he is not interested. Ah well.

    R. Abanes

  2. Tim Wirth said

    Richard- Bud already provided many facts to show that Ken Blanchard still endorses the New Age through books such as Jim Ballards book. This is all current and has been stated in a letter to you.
    Your now a investigative journalist and you didnt know this about Blanchard?
    Even though it has clearly been shown to you in a letter from Bud Press.
    Again much of the updated material has already been provided to you by Bud.
    Im not sure what you dont get.
    And I have got to say where were you and Watchman Fellowship when Blanchard continued to be involved in all the new age?
    Was that being a good brother in the Lord to Blanchard by not calling him out on his associations such as the Hoffman Institute which he even donates to, or his insistance on still endorseing new age authors.
    Richard even though we dont see eye to eye either do I think your stupid.
    Which to me is very strange since your pastor and church still use a new age endorser like Ken Blanchard.
    You had been provided with information before this post today on factual information that Blanchard is still the same as he was in 2005.
    You are the one who has choosen to back pedal and not respond, not Bud Press.
    Tim

  3. TIM: Bud already provided many facts to show that Ken Blanchard still endorses the New Age through books such as Jim Ballards book. This is all current and has been stated in a letter to you.
    RA: I looked at the Jim Ballard book, that’s why emailed him back. But Bud’s material was a bit….difficult to wade through in the form in which I received it.

    ——
    TIM: Your now a investigative journalist and you didn’t know this about Blanchard?
    RA: First, must you always try to insult? Second, do you think I do nothing all day for two years but follow Ken Blanchard around?

    —–
    TIM: Even though it has clearly been shown to you in a letter from Bud Press.
    RA: I write Bud back. Tim, I have been doing other things, you know. And by the way, your confrontational, antagonistic attitude is not helping anything. Calm down or let’s forget about talking.

    —-
    TIM: Again much of the updated material has already been provided to you by Bud.
    RA: Uhm, yeah, and as I said, I wanted it in a cleaner format, as my email to Bud asked.

    —-
    TIM: I’m not sure what you don’t get.
    RA: It’s not what I don’t get, it’s what I don’t have. And at this point, that is time. I have told Bud I’ll look at it as soon as possible

    —-
    TIM: And I have got to say where were you and Watchman Fellowship when Blanchard continued to be involved in all the new age?
    RA: Well, as I said, my life does not revolve around Ken Blanchard. I spoke with him in 2005, he got hooked up with Watchman, and I went on to live my life and serve got in all kinds of other areas and ministry. Now, it’s been 2 years, so I’m gonna take a look at it again, see what’s going on, as soon as I finish up some responsibilities. Is that OKAY with you?

    —-
    TIM: Was that being a good brother in the Lord to Blanchard by not calling him out on his associations such as the Hoffman Institute which he even donates to, or his insistance on still endorsing new age authors.
    RA: Actually, it was being a good brother to entrust him to Watchman, which is apparently the direction he wanted to go. NO ONE asked me to keep tabs on him, and he didn’t ask me to counsel and mentor him or disciple him. So do tell me what I was supposed to do. Watchman told me that they were going to watch over him and the situation. Blanchard told me the same thing. So, I moved on. I do not force myself into a situation where I am neither needed nor wanted. And that was fine with me. I have continued to pray for Blanchard over the last two years. My article is based on where I left the situation. Hence, now that people are saying there is still a problem, I will look into it. Isn’t that good enough?

    —–
    TIM: Richard even though we don’t see eye to eye either do I think your stupid.
    RA: Gee, thank you.

    —-
    TIM: Which to me is very strange since your pastor and church still use a new age endorser like Ken Blanchard.
    RA: Do you mind if I make that decision for myself?

    —-
    TIM: You had been provided with information before this post today on factual information that Blanchard is still the same as he was in 2005. You are the one who has chosen to back pedal and not respond, not Bud Press.
    RA: I suggest you talk to Bud. He and I had some very cordial email exchanges today. And if you want to help — don’t get in the way or be nasty, which sometimes is your way. And I mean that as nicely as possible. So, as for me not responding, I suggest you check your facts. If I don’t jump when you say jump, well, you’re just going to have to get over that.

  4. Bud Press said

    Dear Tim:

    Ken Blanchard is the co-founder of Lead Like Jesus and the Chief Spiritual Officer of The Ken Blanchard Companies. While Blanchard claims to have been a Christian since 1988, he has established an incredible track-record of involvement and participation in the New Age Movement.

    Since 2005, Richard Abanes has maintained that Ken Blanchard is not a New Ager, and has gone to great lengths to belittle and unfairly criticize ministries that expose Blanchard and other New Age wolves in sheep’s clothing.

    After reviewing Abanes’ website and studying his information and statements on Ken Blanchard, I contacted Abanes on March 11, 2008 and provided him with irrefutable documentation on Ken Blanchard’s past and present participation in the New Age Movement. Later, at Abanes’ request, he was provided with additional updates, some of which included Blanchard’s direct participation in New Age practices.

    But Abanes said he didn’t have time to review the information on Blanchard, but would in “6-8 weeks,” because he was on a deadline writing a book on the New Age Movement.

    Perhaps if Abanes spent less time on internet blogs and more time in the Department of Accountability, he would be taken more seriously, and considered an authentic “investigative religion journalist.”

    Consequently, in light of his compromising position on Ken Blanchard, Abanes’ book may not sit well with reputable apologetic and cult-evangelistic ministries, not to mention discerning Christians worldwide.

    Nevertheless, since March 11, 2008, Abanes has had ample time to review the information and make the necessary corrections on his website. However, as of this writing, he continues to maintain that Ken Blanchard is no New Ager, which is not only terribly misleading, but dangerous to the spiritual welfare of the innocent and unwary ( http://abanes.com/LTRP_PressRelease.html ).

    “Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin” (James 4:17).

    While Abanes may not have been fully informed in the past, he knows now. Now that he has been thoroughly informed and updated, should he continue to maintain his current position on Ken Blanchard, he is knowingly deceiving the body of Christ and promoting a New Age wolf in sheep’s clothing.

    In Acts 20:27-32, the Apostle Paul warned the Ephesian elders of savage wolves who would enter into the church from the outside, and spring-up from the inside. Paul’s words clearly define the false prophets and false teachers of our day, who claim to be Christian, but are, in reality, “false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ” (2 Corinthians 11:13).

    Wolves within the Christian church are overshadowed by a counterfeit spirit, and use false accusations, spin-doctor excuses, self-centered and self-promoting diatribes, and damage-control to boost their own ego. Overall, wolves use a conditioning process and fine-tuned deception to wear-down those who oppose them.

    Wolves are their own worst enemies. Their actions betray them; their words always return to haunt them–like a humiliating slap in the face or a swift kick in the pants.

    And in the midst of fine-tuned deception, it is the task of every Christian to place Jesus Christ first and foremost in their life, uphold the truth of God’s word, tell the truth in love, and be not afraid or intimidated of the wolves in our midst.

    Instead of accepting something “carte blanche,” Christians should investigate what is being said, weigh the evidence carefully and objectively, then rely on God’s word for their final authority. Truth hurts sometimes. Truth causes division and separation. Truth should never be compromised or sacrificed for the sake of affiliations, associations, friendships, and personal gain.

    Regardless of man’s attempts to confuse, deceive, and sidetrack the issues, truth will stand up to intensive investigation. Solid, irrefutable documentation demonstrates truth, and stands on its own.

    For further information on Ken Blanchard and the New Age Movement, please refer to the following articles:

    “Letters to Richard Abanes Concerning Ken Blanchard and the New Age Movement” at http://www.christianresearchservice.com/LetterstoRichardAbanes.htm .

    “Ken Blanchard Endorses Book ‘Inspired’ by Hindu Guru” at
    http://www.christianresearchservice.com/KenBlanchard9.htm .

    Ken Blanchard and Lead Like Jesus research page at
    http://www.christianresearchservice.com/LeadingLikeJesus.htm .

    God bless you, Tim, and thank you for allowing me to post this important information on your site.

    Sincerely in Christ,
    Bud Press, Director
    Christian Research Service
    http://www.christianresearchservice.com
    Jude 3

  5. BUD: Perhaps if Abanes spent less time on internet blogs and more time in the Department of Accountability, he would be taken more seriously, and considered an authentic “investigative religion journalist.”

    RA: Why do you people insists on behvaing like this? It’s as if you WANT to fight; enjoy the fight of itr all. You go out of your way, it seems, to keep up the tension. Why? I really just do not get it. Why are you seeking to pursue a course of animosity and antagonism when someone (i.e., me) has just said. “Hmm, interesting stuff. let me find some time and I’ll get on it.”?

    It makes me wonder exactly what you’re after, because truth does not seem top be the goal — but rather, fighting, nasty slaps, insults, feuding. You wonder why i have made some of the comments I have made about you discerners? You are giving the explanation right here in this forum.

    I would remind you that I was not the one who started with the insults. The Warren-attackers launched the first salvo of hateful-hurtful comments, and I merely came out and responded, calling them what they were, and pointing out why such insults were highly un-called for.

    _______________
    BUD: Consequently, in light of his compromising position on Ken Blanchard, Abanes’ book may not sit well with reputable apologetic and cult-evangelistic ministries, not to mention discerning Christians worldwide.

    RA: Oh please. Compromising? I have articles up on my website based on the last information I received from Blanchard and Watchman. I have moved on to do other things in two years. And now, I am prepared to take another look at the issue based on concerns raised by people such as yourself. Now, just because I won’t move as fast as you want or say exactly what you want me to say in the the way you want me to say it, I am compromising. There is no winning with you.

    _______________
    BUD: …. since March 11, 2008, Abanes has had ample time to review the information and make the necessary corrections on his website.

    RA: Ample time? Says who? You? Please do forgive me if I don’t say “How High?” when you say jump. Forgive me if as an American adult, I make my own decisions about what to do on a daily basis for my family, for myself, and for my God. Sigh. Really sad and disappointing.

    I have not even said at this point that you are right or wrong. And have stated that his connection with Ballard’s new book concerns me. And added that as soon as possible, I’ll look at everything you sent me. But that’s not good enough. Well, if that’s not good enough, then too bad. You are not my Lord, not my Savior, not my God, not my Master (and please don’t say I’m using this in a New Age fashion).

    _______________
    BUD: However, as of this writing, he continues to maintain that Ken Blanchard is no New Ager, which is not only terribly misleading, but dangerous to the spiritual welfare of the innocent and unwary

    RA: Yes, and until I have TIME to review the material, that is the way it will stay. Again, as I told you in my email, I will NOT be pressured by you or anyone else to act in a way that I see as premature.

    _______________
    BUD: “Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin” (James 4:17).

    RA: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course, the “right thing to do” is what you say is the right thing to do, so this becomes a convenient verse you can use against anyone you disagree with. Nice.

    _______________
    BUD: While Abanes may not have been fully informed in the past, he knows now. Now that he has been thoroughly informed and updated, should he continue to maintain his current position on Ken Blanchard, he is knowingly deceiving the body of Christ and promoting a New Age wolf in sheep’s clothing.

    RA: Again, nice spin on the truth. You seem to really WANT me to be a deceiver. I really cannot after all of this time figure out you people who thrive on this kind of stuff. Can you not just speak civilly to others and try to work this out calmly, rationally, thoughtfully, and cautiously, leaving room for things like the pace of others, time limitations, differences in scheduling, opposing opinions? You have made YOUR own view of everything, including how a person is to live and how a person is to react, as GOD’S way. Sorry, that is not biblical, no matter how many verses you spout.

    _________________
    BUD: n Acts 20:27-32, the Apostle Paul warned the Ephesian elders of savage wolves who would enter into the church from the outside, and spring-up from the inside.

    RA: Am I, or am I not a wolf in sheeps clothing???? Just say it and stop dancing around the issue. Just say it and be done with it — or stop implying it with you power scripture. And do you, or do you not, want me to carefully look at the material you sent me about Blanchard when I have the opportunity — i.e., after I have fulfilled my obligations to my family, God, and employers????

    And might I suggest that you, and Tim, and the others stop picking fights and trying to be as offensive, confrontational, and antagonistic as possible (like your buddy Paul Proctor), unless of course, that is what you think it means to be a Christian. If that’s what you DO think it means to be a Christian (1 Cor. 13), then we have a lot more problems in the Body of Christ than Rick Warren or Ken Blanchard. I mean, really, why oh why do you guys have to be like this? sigh. 😦

  6. Tim Wirth said

    Richard: Again sometimes its difficult to communicate via internet because you miss out on the tone of peoples voice etc..
    The type of language you use when you are talking about the Dombrowski’s, Warren Smith, Paul Proctor and many who oppose your views is every bit as harsh as the those you claim speak haefully to you. I just scratch my head and wonder where you are coming from when you use words like hateful and mean describing those at Discernit and other blogs who dont agree with you.
    I guess whats good for the goose isnt good for the gander.
    I have used poor word choices with you, calling you Richie and pushing your buttons as you acuratly described on your Rumor Control part of your site. You described all this factually and I’m sorry for my poor choice of words. Even if you were a unbeliever or a heritic I should not have spoke to you like that.
    When I did I was in the flesh and Im sorry to have spoken to you that way. I also ask you forgive me of past harsh words I have used on you.
    And in the future I will try to be more civil.
    Whether you remain civil is up to you and I will try to not let it influence my writing.
    I repent of those poor unChristlike word choices I used on you and really am sorry.
    That being said on to the Blanchard matter.
    You state you are a investigative journalist.
    Thats fine but I want to question what you investigated about Ken Blanchard before you did your 2008 update?
    All this information on Blanchard-the Jim Ballard book, Blanchards continued association with the Hoffman Insititute, and all other current information you have been given is easily found online.
    While I know you may be busy you have a responsibility to the Body of Christ (not just me and Bud but we are part of that Body) to give acurate information.
    You dropped the ball on that one and I do question (with all respect) whether you did any kind of current research on Ken Blanchard at all before posting your update.
    I have heard that you are currently writing a book on the topic of the New Age.
    Dont you feel any sense of responsibility to the Body of Christ to do some research on Blanchard before posting a thumbs up on Ken?
    This is not buried links and hard to find stuff and this lack of well thought out research only hurts you.
    Not me, Bud or the Dombrowski’s because we already knew the facts.
    It really made me sad in some of your comments about Ken Blanchard and how he was handed off to Watchman Fellowship.
    You had what many others dont and thats access to a very powerful man who is (and still is) in very deep spiritual trouble if the guy is even a Christian. And because of Kens fruit I dont believe Ken really knows Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
    Where is your sense of responsibility to Ken.
    Your comments kinda throw Ken under the bus in my mind.
    In the long run all this hurts you and your credability.
    If I didnt care why would I waste my time away from my family to in a small way help you out. Even when Im pretty sure you wont listen?
    You have a lot to lose Richard you signed a membership agreement with Saddleback and if you ever opposed Rick Warren and spoke out against him and his associations your career with major publishers could be (and probably would be) done.
    I dont like what Rick Warren does or anything he stands for but I do acknowedge he is a very powerful man in the world.
    The ball is in your court now the right thing to do is be discerning and warn the Body of Christ of any danger.
    If you think Ken Blanchard is not a danger this will speak for itself.
    People are really starting to wake up to the fruit of places like Saddleback and Willow Creek and well as guys like Robert Schuller.
    And even you cant stop the Holy Spirit from leading people into truth and waking up.
    The truth will be told by the many voices crying in the wilderness.
    I pray you do whats right in the eyes of the Lord.
    Enough said.
    Tim Wirth

  7. Okay, let’s all breath here. Mkay. Calm, slowly, taking a step back. Let us proceed slowly in hopes of honoring Christ. Agreed?

    1. Thank you for your apology. I can easily apologize in response for anything I have said that was not Christ-like. This has become a very, very, emotional issue on many fronts and at various levels. We need to somehow try to back off a bit — everyone of us. I think my issue has been how, after dedicating my life to Christ and apologetics (as evidenced by my many books against false teachings, and doctrines, and cults), I have been labeled all manner of evil things simply because I began coming out in defense of Rick Warren based on what i saw were mistakes in the area of discernment and fairness. Suddenly, I became a pariah for disagreeing on one issue. Rather than simply saying, “Hmmm, ahh well, I think Abanes has really missed it here for some reason, I was accused viciously of all kinds of things. I don’t think you know what that feels like. But I appreciate your kind words and I do want to go on. We have a very very grave threat, in my opinion, that is not making its presence known and I am hoping that people can at least join forces for a bit of time and put some things on hold.

    _____________
    2. > That’s fine but I want to question what you investigated about Ken Blanchard before you did your 2008 update?

    RA: What is now posted on my website is an update only in that it restates the old Blanchard story, which from my perspective has not changed. And that is why, when I have the opportunity, I am going to look again at the issue. I hope that is a clear picture for you. Then, when I have assessed all of that information, which Bud gave me, and after making some phone calls, I will do an update based HONESTLY on my findings. I don’t care who is right or wrong — you, me, Warren, Watchman. What is true will be what is true. And when I look carefully at everything, I will say what is true.

    ________
    3. It really made me sad in some of your comments about Ken Blanchard and how he was handed off to Watchman Fellowship.You had what many others don’t and thats access to a very powerful man who is (and still is) in very deep spiritual trouble if the guy is even a Christian. . . . Your comments kinda throw Ken under the bus in my mind.

    RA: You give me more credit. I had very limited access. I was NOT, and I want to repeat this, I was NOT asked to assist in any way the discipling/training of Blanchard, nor was I invited to participate in bringing him up to speed on the various individuals he had been involved with (as of 2005). If I had been invited to assist, I would have done so, and did all I could to speak with him regularly, pray with him, give him books, talk to him about people like Ballard. I WAS NOT GIVEN THAT OPPORTUNITY. And, I was disappointed. I wanted that chance, and was hoping and praying for it. God said no, apparently. So, what was I to do? I cannot force someone to call me, or force someone to choose me to help them. Please understand this. I had to move on. I agree with you that the last I spoke to him in July 2005 he was having major discernment problems. But I was not the one chosen to help. Sorry, that’s just the truth. No one felt more disappointed than me since I was the one who had initially contacted Blanchard’s ministry and raised the issue. You will see that in my account now up on the web.

    __________
    4. While I know you may be busy you have a responsibility to the Body of Christ (not just me and Bud but we are part of that Body) to give accurate information.

    RA: You are right. And that is why I am looking at the Blanchard issue again. From me to you, from my heart to your heart, can you understand that right now, I have other obligations to fulfill that must be fulfilled? I hope you can see that.

    What I am doing now is very very crucial to the Body of Christ — dare I say, even more crucial than the Blanchard issue. I am dealing with a serious enemy of Christianity and the cross of Christ. Please be patient. And if you want to help me get to Blanchard sooner, pray that God will help me take care of this project first and in a way that will accomplish his will.

    ____________
    5. Don’t you feel any sense of responsibility to the Body of Christ to do some research on Blanchard before posting a thumbs up on Ken?

    RA: I’ll tell you what. To show my good faith and my desire to do what is right — you give me 24 hours, and I will take down the current Blanchard article on my website, and allow it to go blank until I can do a full-scale update after looking at Bud’s information. Is that fair to you?

    _____________

    6. You have a lot to lose Richard you signed a membership agreement with Saddleback and if you ever opposed Rick Warren and spoke out against him and his associations your career with major publishers could be (and probably would be) done.

    RA: I have nothing to lose. I can say what I want to say. Much more has been made of that covenant — as if it is some kind of cult comittment form.

    Sorry, I gotta say this……ROFL.

    I can, and I will, say anything I want to say about anything and anyone. Jesus is my Master — no one else. Last I looked, he was the one who died for me.

    And as for my career — again, ROFL. Dude, if you only knew. I gave that kind of stuff up years ago. As long as God wants my associations with major publishers to continue, it’ll continue. When he wants it to stop, it’ll stop. Whatever …… Matt. 6: 19-21, 33; 16:24-26.

    _______________
    7. People are really starting to wake up to the fruit of places like Saddleback

    RA: This is a very very very broad, sweeping, and unfair thing to say. I really think you know very little about Saddleback or the hearts of the people there and their commitment to, and love for, Jesus. Anyway, we shall cross each bridge as we come to them.

    Suffice it to say that if Ken Blanchard is still messed up, then fine, I’ll find that out and say so. But still, this would not mean a whole list of other accusations about Warren that is as long as my arm is a true list. Part of apologetics is rightly connecting the dots. This is the primary problem I see in so many….”ministries” (i.e., dot-connecting). Blanchard is a perfect example. If he is still running around endorsing New Agers, and failing to show discernment, then the next question that must be carefully and slowly looked at is: What exactly does that mean? You cannot simply jump from conclusion to conclusion that builds a worst case scenario……but I digress.

    I hope we have taken a first step to at least hearing each other a bit more.

    RA

  8. Tim Wirth said

    Well I too appreciate a civil discourse and will of course precede with extreme caution. And by the way my breathing is just fine really Im not excited in the least.
    I do want to respond to a couple of your comments I will take them out of order as I address them.
    Richard you said-
    “I’ll tell you what. To show my good faith and my desire to do what is right — you give me 24 hours, and I will take down the current Blanchard article on my website, and allow it to go blank until I can do a full-scale update after looking at Bud’s information. Is that fair to you? ”

    My Reply-
    Whats fair to me really doesnt matter. I know you are being polite and I appreciate that, but you do what you need to do and Im promise I will report accuratly all on what you do and perhaps what you dont do. Not trying to pick a fight just cover all the bases. Sometimes what people dont do speaks louder then what they do.

    Richard you said-
    What is now posted on my website is an update only in that it restates the old Blanchard story, which from my perspective has not changed. And that is why, when I have the opportunity, I am going to look again at the issue. I hope that is a clear picture for you. Then, when I have assessed all of that information, which Bud gave me, and after making some phone calls, I will do an update based HONESTLY on my findings. I don’t care who is right or wrong — you, me, Warren, Watchman. What is true will be what is true. And when I look carefully at everything, I will say what is true.

    My reply-
    Now I dont know what tone of voice or how you meant this statement ” And when I look carefully at everything, I will say what is true.”
    Im not going to pretend I know what you mean here because the facts are very simple, well documented and already true in their context.
    Ken Blanchard has already wrote a foreward to Jim Ballards new book which is a new age book.
    Ken is still a member of the Hoffman Institute.
    Whats true is already true and nothing will change that because the facts stand alone.
    Now if you are going to get to the WHY (big letters but Im still not angry just making a point) Ken Blanchard is doing and still doing this well we all can see that Ken is still doing the same things you and Watchman Fellowship called him on over 2 years ago.
    That truth has also not changed with this habit.
    Blame it on Watchman Fellowship or who ever for dropping the ball and not following up on what they stated they would do the blame has got to be on Blanchard because he was warned that these habits are destructive by you, Watchman Fellowship, and others such as Bud Press he continued in this behavior.
    Allow me to say also that Ken is brilliant I dont buy it at all that he doesnt know exactly what he is doing. No amounts od future confessions for the sake of good press will I trust Blanchard on that.
    In my opinion I believe Ken played both you and Watchman Fellowship and we see that he has not repented because he is still doing the same error that caused you guys to call him out in the first place.
    Warn Ken again that would be great but I dont trust him again because the man is a highly intelligent man even though he may be spiritually misinformed (and Im being kind here).

    Richard said-
    What I am doing now is very very crucial to the Body of Christ — dare I say, even more crucial than the Blanchard issue. I am dealing with a serious enemy of Christianity and the cross of Christ.

    My comments-
    If you are referring to you writing a book on the new age or upcoming new age I agree that is a serious topic that needs to be addressed in the Body of Christ and is currently being addressed by authors such as Ray Yungen and “A Time Of Departing.”
    Its really not any more or less important than the Ken Blanchard issue because Ken is part of that issue and Ken is allowed to influence many thousands through places such as Saddleback.
    Why would anyone allow a weak Christian (Rick Warrens own words) to speak to the thousands at their church?
    I think anyone who allows Blanchard to speak has a responsibility to the Body of Christ to check and see if Ken is still not just a weak Christian but promoting the New Age as well.
    You did say this was a big danger for the Body of Christ and you are accurate in that statement.
    Now I know you cant tell Rick Warren what to do but you could have approached him in love and concern and expressed your concern because I know you love your friends at Saddleback.
    Again I know you state that you were not aware of the facts but again you are now. Something I would hope you would consider in the future.

    Richard said-
    “Blanchard is a perfect example. If he is still running around endorsing New Agers, and failing to show discernment, then the next question that must be carefully and slowly looked at is: What exactly does that mean? ”

    my comments-
    Blanchard is still endorsing New Agers
    http://www.simonsays.com/content/book.cfm?tab=1&pid=534251&er=9781582701417
    that is just the truth these dots are connected (again still not angry here just concerned I dont understand why you dont see this or what further truth you are looking for here).
    And to your comment what exactly does it mean?
    What did it mean the first time you and Watchman Fellowship called Blanchard out on this behavior that still has not changed.
    Nothing has changed and thats not Emperors New Clothes truth but just the facts.
    Who is to blame?
    Who cares its mostly on Ken to do what he said he would do.

    Your own quotes from Ken Blanchard
    Ken Blanchard stated –
    “”Recently, it was brought to my attention that some of my endorsements and book forewords are for books written by authors who espouse concepts that are contrary to Christian teachings. I did not realize that this was the case when I wrote these endorsements and forewords. But now after further study and discussions with other followers of Jesus whom I respect and admire, including the staff at Watchman Fellowship, I understand why these are problematic and I promise that I will exercise better discernment in the future.”

    James Walkers statement on Ken Blanchard
    and I quote
    “”After consulting with Watchman Fellowship staff and others Blanchard readily admits that these endorsements, though made in ignorance, are problematic and should not have been made. His statement regarding this can be found on the Lead Like Jesus website . . .”

    “It is regretful that any Christian leader might err, under any circumstances, by promoting New Age authors or their teachings. We are grateful that in this instance, when approached with the issues of concern, Mr. Blanchard was not only willing to admit to this error but, to also make assurances to take corrective action for the future.”

    “After spending time with Mr. Blanchard we are now convinced that he is, in fact, a brother in Christ and are committed to assist him as he continues to work through the issues that have arisen as a result of these past endorsements. We encourage you to pray for Ken and the Lead Like Jesus staff as they move forward.”end of quotes

    The first question I would ask here is who dropped the ball Ken or Watchman Fellowship. The Ken Blanchard update has been removed from Watchman Fellowships site (without comment) so who knows what is going on.
    Watchman Fellowship also has a responsibility to the Body of Christ about why they removed the update.
    Bud has also contacted them to find out why and they never replied.
    If indeed Ken was deemed as some kind of danger shouldnt people be warned that his behavior has not changed?
    Again Ken has stated that he has been a Christian for a long time. (1988 I believe) and the facts of Ken Blanchards spirituality is in plain view through his associations and book endorsements and writing’s.
    Last comments
    Richard stated-
    You give me more credit. I had very limited access. I was NOT, and I want to repeat this, I was NOT asked to assist in any way the discipling/training of Blanchard, nor was I invited to participate in bringing him up to speed on the various individuals he had been involved with (as of 2005).

    My comments from your own website comments you stated-
    “But once I was confronted with various charges against him being a New Ager, I had to admit that he at first seemed guilty. For example, it was undeniable that Blanchard had affixed his name to numerous books that no discerning Christian would have supported

    For many years Blanchard had apparently been living with a serious lack of spiritual discernment—and sadly, for all those years he had also never found someone to consistently help him grow in that particular area of Christian living. As a result, various people advocating non-Christian religious belief systems were able to convince Blanchard to endorse their products, including a vast array of extremely problematic books that advance highly unbiblical concepts. Their doctrinal views never seemed to be his focus.
    (side comment I think you have to stretch pretty far to say that Ken has less than a clue since Blanchard himself has claimed to be a Christian for sometime now back to my point on your comments though)

    Your comments from your website-
    “I continued to stay in contact with Lead Like Jesus for several weeks and was given assured that changes were going to be made and that steps were going to be being taken to deal with the problem. According to one spokesperson, who spoke with me on the telephone, they were “working hard to have an answer” and that they wanted to “make sure that this never comes up again, and people will have confidence in our Lead Like Jesus ministry and in our materials. It’s so critical so we really want to make sure that we get it right.”

    I was then contacted by Blanchard himself, who called me to personally thank me for bringing such problems to his attention. He assured me that he was going to work very hard to learn more about doctrinal matters and grow spiritually as the years progressed, using the controversy as a wake-up call for him.”

    my comments- so to think that Ken would not have taken a phone call from you who he has called before is just hard for me to believe.
    My question about all this is you either did not know Ken was in any danger even though the information was out there.
    Or you ignored the facts.
    Only God ( or your asscoiations)knows the truth on that one.
    Again to the point that you are writing a book on the New Age and you do make statements that you are a investigative journalist but yet it seems you did no follow-up investigation on Ken Blanchard since 2005.
    I do not need to remind you what a powerful influence Ken Blanchard is today not just on Christianity but on the world as well.
    To play this like its perhaps not that important of a issue of to imply its a small side issue is a big lack of responsibility on your part.
    And with all respect just because you have authored several books I would question your credability on writing on the danger of the New Age since the Ken Blanchard danger seems to be slipping by you.
    And I think thats a fair question.

    Your final comments-
    “Blanchard is a perfect example. If he is still running around endorsing New Agers, and failing to show discernment, then the next question that must be carefully and slowly looked at is: What exactly does that mean? You cannot simply jump from conclusion to conclusion that builds a worst case scenario.

    My final comments-
    Richard I dont pretend to know if you dodge and duck on purpose but the biggest complaint about you is you sometimes never really answer all the questions as well over analyzing some pretty basic facts.
    Now people have read into that fairly or unfairly because they may think you are covering for Warren or whatever. This may be fair or not but if someone was going to get hit by a bus and you could do something to save that person would you act or sit there and think about the best way to get that person out of imenent danger.
    When you make comments like”What exactly does that mean? ” I think of my enemy satan’s comment in the garden -Did God really say that.Gen 3:1
    Now to clarify Im not saying you are satan but you if you are not deceiving I believe you are perhaps being deceived.
    Today is not July 26, 2005 but March 31 2008 and Ken Blanchard has not changed.
    You state on your website
    “As of early 2008, Lighthouse Trails was still making the very same false accusations about Ken Blanchard and Rick Warren that they were making back in 2005, going so far as to devote an entire page to the ever-present danger, as they see it. The page includes the same information above, as well as a resoundingly clear rejection of Blanchard’s attempts to rectify the situation by: a) expressing his regret/sorrow over his mistakes; b) seeking the help of Watchman Fellowship to learn more about Christian doctrine; and c) working harder to be more careful about what books/people he endorses.”

    Your statement was not based on all the facts though because Blanchard has continued to endorse New Age books and keep New Age associations.
    For the record though it is really up to Ken Blanchard to submit to change and truth through ultimatly the Holy Spirit who always sends Christians to help weaker Christian consistantly.
    And I really dont care what anyone’s statement of faith states on their website because if they are not living or even trying to live according to scripture the statement of faith is just a ploy to deceive the many naive and weak Christians we have in the Body of Christ today.
    And Im not trying to sound elitist here people just need to read their Bibles to find the truth its not that difficult if you are one who seeks the truth.

    Well enough said there
    Peace
    Tim Wirth

  9. TIM: Whats fair to me really doesn’t matter.

    RA: LoL. Actually that’s very true. Fine, then I have no problem INSERTING a new UPDATE MESSAGE that says I have received requests to look into him further based on his actions since July to date.

    I have nothing at stake here — contrary to popular belief. Truth is the issue to me. Not just defending Warren. Or not JUST criticizing his critics. In fact, you may have noticed that I have completely taken down my very lengthy articles refuting Todd Wilken, the host of Issues Etc. radio program who was a real serious, very popular critic of Rick Warren. Why? Because KFUO canceled Wilken’s radio program for what appeared to be rather political reasons — and possibly in direct response to his criticisms of Warren and the whole seeker thing. That’s not right.

    Even though I disagree vehemently with Wilken on this single issue of Warren, he is an upstanding, godly, biblically sound defender of the faith who was providing a vital service of discernment to the Body of Christ through his radio program. So, in a move to show my solidarity, I removed my articles on Wilken, and replaced them with a link on “My Articles” page to the petition to get his show back on the air. I then signed the petition. Even before removing the articles critical of Wilken’s position, I included this qualifier at the top of the page:

    DESPITE THE EXTENT OF THESE ARTICLES DEALING WITH TODD WILKEN AND MY DISAGREEMENTS WITH HIS VIEWS ON RICK WARREN, SADDLEBACK CHURCH, AND WARREN’S PURPOSE DRIVEN TEACHINGS, I CONTINUE TO HIGHLY RECOMMEND WILKEN, HIS MINISTRY, AND HIS RADIO PROGRAM. WILKEN AND I ARE CHRISTIAN BROTHERS WHO JUST HAPPEN TO DISAGREE MOST SERIOUSLY ON RICK WARREN (AND THE ISSUES SURROUNDING HIM).

    It should be obvious that my concern here is truth — not winning some “us vs. them” battle, not racking up points, not defending any man just to defend him (or attacking someone just to attack), or trying to make a name for myself, or being paid off (HA HA HA HA, especially on that one). The issue is truth. Actually, truth be told, we should actually be able to disagree on this issue and not end up at each other’s throats. But, i think before that happens, a lot of changes will have to be made and other things happen that i can’t see right now being possible.

    ______________
    TIM: I’m not going to pretend I know what you mean here because the facts are very simple, well documented and already true in their context.Ken Blanchard has already wrote a foreword to Jim Ballards new book which is a new age book. Ken is still a member of the Hoffman Institute. Whats true is already true and nothing will change that because the facts stand alone.

    RA: Let’s not start talking past each other here because of old wounds or distrust. All I meant by that was I will print and report on what is indeed true — I was NOT intimating that anything is/was untrue. I am only making reference to the fact that when i look over all of the material, what is true (as in what is indeed factual as I find those facts), will be stated. That’s all.

    ________________
    TIM: Ken is still doing the same things you and Watchman Fellowship called him on over 2 years ago.
    RA: Okay, I got it. Fine. Sure. Now, just as I did two yeas ago. It will be time for me to look at everything and go from there. REMEMBER, I was the one who read the stuff two years ago about Blanchard and said, “Oh, no, no, no. This is not good. Not good at all.” And then I WAS THE ONE who called the Blanchard’s ministry to try to get something to change. Don’t forget that. And then, once everything started breaking open and I had contacted the ministry, somehow — and to date I don’t know how — Watchman was suddenly involved and I was out. To be honest, when I spoke to Blanchard I thought he was going to ask me to help him. He didn’t. Instead, he told me he’d gotten hooked up with Watchman (again, I have no idea how he even heard about Watchman, or why he chose to seek their help). I know that Watchman has a great reputation as a discernment ministry, so I thought. “Well, okay, great.” My feeling was — whatever God wants. He’s in control, not me. So I moved on. I have no idea what then transpired between Watchman and Blanchard regarding some kind of program for discipleship, discernment training, and mentoring.

    ______________
    TIM: In my opinion I believe Ken played both you and Watchman Fellowship and we see that he has not repented because he is still doing the same error that caused you guys to call him out in the first place.

    RA: Hmm, maybe so. But I’ll see. And you know, Tim, God is in control. I would rather see someone as innocent until proven guilty. When someone comes to me and says, “I made a mistake(s). I was wrong. I didn’t know. I’m sorry. I’ll try to do better.” Who am I to say no? I am going to love them — believing all things and hoping all things because that’s what scripture commands (1 Cor. 13). And love covers a multitude of sins (1 Peter 4:8). God knows, I have been forgiven enough and given more chances by our Lord. Who am I to deny similar chances to others?

    So, now, we are two years down the road. I receive news — “Blanchard has done it again and seems totally unchanged.”

    Fine. So, in response, I write it down on my little calendar, finish up my tasks, then start reading and making phone calls. Okay, whatever. Here we go again.

    ______________
    TIM: Warn Ken again that would be great but I dont trust him again because the man is a highly intelligent man even though he may be spiritually misinformed (and Im being kind here).

    RA: Well, for my own peace of mind and conscious, if I find problems (STILL), then I must at least try to contact him again and/or his ministry. That’s only fair. It’s the right thing to do.

    ______________
    TIM: ….. Its really not any more or less important than the Ken Blanchard issue

    RA: It’s different. It’s a different issue, more current in nature. You’ll see. I hope it helps you and others. Look, Tim, I am still the same guy who wrote Harry Potter and the Bible. I’m still the same guy who wrote 2 serious, lengthy books against Mormonism. I’m still the same guy who write The Truth Behind the Da Vinci Code. Please don’t forget that. I’ve not been possessed by some alien being. rofl.

    ________________
    TIM: You did say this was a big danger for the Body of Christ and you are accurate in that statement. Now I know you cant tell Rick Warren what to do but you could have approached him in love and concern and expressed your concern because I know you love your friends at Saddleback. Again I know you state that you were not aware of the facts but again you are now. Something I would hope you would consider in the future.

    RA: Oh, Tim. Absolutely. When this whole thing broke in 2005 about Blanchard. I talked to Rick and told him, “Rick, Ken’s got some serious problems.” He asked me what I thought. And I told him that I thought Blanchard would be fine because he was going under the care of Watchman Fellowship. Rick was very, very pleased and glad that Ken would be getting help in that area. I was, too.

    So, we both moved on. I assumed Blanchard had immediately been taken into some kind of program with Watchman. Tim, please, you have got to understand I can’t follow around everyone in the world. That’s not realistic. And Warren can’t either — even less so than I can!!

    _________________
    TIM: Blanchard is still endorsing New Agers. . . .I don’t understand why you don’t see this or what further truth you are looking for here).

    RA: Tim, the ONLY New Age thing I have seen is the Ballard book. And that was enough for me to email Bud back and say, “Hey, can you send me this stuff in a more bulleted/list form so that when I have a chance I can look at all of it?”

    _________________
    TIM: And to your comment what exactly does it mean? What did it mean the first time you and Watchman Fellowship called Blanchard out on this behavior that still has not changed.

    RA: By connect the dots, I mean, even if Blanchard is still endorsing New Age peeps, what does that mean in a broader sense — is it a conspiracy theory or something else. Who knows what and who is doing what. Motivation issues. Association issues. Those kinds of things.

    ___________________
    TIM: The first question I would ask here is who dropped the ball Ken or Watchman Fellowship.

    RA: I have no idea. I have been out of it utterly. When I can, I will see what I can found out. That is coming. Be patient. God is in control.

    __________________
    TIM: The Ken Blanchard update has been removed from Watchman Fellowships site (without comment) so who knows what is going on. Watchman Fellowship also has a responsibility to the Body of Christ about why they removed the update.

    RA: Again, I have no idea. When I can, I will call. Why do you think I am taking all of this time? Think about it. Why do you think I am taking all of this time to do something I really do not need to be doing? It’s because I care about truth.

    __________________
    TIM: Again Ken has stated that he has been a Christian for a long time. (1988 I believe) and the facts of Ken Blanchards spirituality is in plain view through his associations and book endorsements and writing’s.

    RA: I can only talk at this point about 1988-2005. Yes. Agreed. Dismal. Confused. Non-Discerning. Now, two years have passed. I will look again to see what has happened. Patience.

    ____________________
    TIM: …. to think that Ken would not have taken a phone call from you who he has called before is just hard for me to believe.

    RA: Believe it, Tim. We are dealing with some very, very influential, powerful, difficult-to-reach people. It was not my place. I can only tell you that — it was not my place. He was hooked up with Watchman, and that was the end of that as far as i was concerned, and my role in things.

    ____________________
    TIM: My question about all this is you either did not know Ken was in any danger even though the information was out there.Or you ignored the facts. Only God (or your associations) knows the truth on that one.

    RA: I’m not sure what time frame you’re talking about here. Before or after I first contacted his ministry? BEFORE I contacted his ministry, I barely knew who he was. AFTER I contacted his ministry, he was in the care of Watchman.

    ______________________
    TIM: Again to the point that you are writing a book on the New Age and you do make statements that you are a investigative journalist but yet it seems you did no follow-up investigation on Ken Blanchard since 2005.

    RA: Uhm, why should I? I mean, my ministry is NOT isolated to the New Age. Since 2005, I have produced a book on Easter, a book on video games, a novel on racism in America, and another book on Harry Potter (which I had to make sure to get published in refutation of those Christians who were saying Harry Potter is a Christian series!). I have been a little busy. Make sense?

    Blanchard went off to Watchman. My job was done. It was time to see what else God wanted me to do. And the Holy Spirit DID NOT tell me to keep a weekly tracking of one man in the world.

    ____________________
    TIM: I do not need to remind you what a powerful influence Ken Blanchard is today not just on Christianity but on the world as well. To play this like its perhaps not that important of a issue of to imply its a small side issue is a big lack of responsibility on your part.

    RA: Well, that’s your call. You see, this is part of the problem. Too many Christians are telling other Christians what they should and shouldn’t be doing. Telling others what they should and shouldn’t be concerned about. How about you following what God is leading you to do. And I follow what God is leading me to do. I mean, Jesus IS our Master and Lord, right? Not each other. And the Body IS made up of hands, toes, eyes, ears, and other parts that have DIFFERENT functions, right? So how about letting others function.

    I’ve had 4 books published since 2005. And I am working desperately each day with hardly any sleep to get this next one out ASAP because of a need and danger that God has laid on my heart. And YOU are telling me that I have shown a “big lack of responsibility”? Tim, c’mon. Really. That’s a bit much, don’t you think?

    _____________________
    TIM: And with all respect just because you have authored several books I would question your credibility on writing on the danger of the New Age since the Ken Blanchard danger seems to be slipping by you.

    RA: Question all you want. And no one is slipping by me, as I have already explained. (feel free to critique my book when it is released, hopefully you’ll find it useful).

    ____________________
    TIM: This may be fair or not but if someone was going to get hit by a bus and you could do something to save that person would you act or sit there and think about the best way to get that person out of imenent danger.

    RA: The issue is: Is it a bus? Or is it a tricycle? You react to a tricycle the way you react to a bus and people are going to get hurt. And that’s what I’m seeing. People being unnecessarily hurt because some “discerners” are responding to a bus rather than a tricycle. Warren Smith is a perfect example — he’s absurd, IMHO. He can’t read a comic strip in the newspaper without seeing some New Age hidden agenda or conspiracy……but I digress.

    ____________________
    TIM: Now to clarify I’m not saying you are satan but you if you are not deceiving I believe you are perhaps being deceived.

    RA” Sigh. Whatever. I’m not exactly sure how it’s deception when I receive word about someone who supposedly repented two years ago about their New Age ties, then I say, “Hmmm, yeah, look at this new Ballard book. That’s not good. Give me some time and I’ll take a closer look.”

    Deceived? How about patient, responsible, slow, and careful. C’mon, Tim, stop with those kinds of remarks already. Enough. Let’s get past that stuff.

    _____________________
    TIM: Your statement was not based on all the facts though because Blanchard has continued to endorse New Age books and keep New Age associations.

    RA: And this is what we have just been talking about, right? And this is why I have just said at the top that I’d throw up a new UPDATE MESSAGE in that spot on that page, right?

    So, give me 24 hours from now. I’ll let you know when the new “UPDATE 2008” message is added to my article Lighthouse Trails: The Blanchard Bashers. (I think there is also another page that will have to be given a new 2008 Update message.)

  10. A new warning/caution 2008 update has been added here:

    http://abanes.com/LTRP_PressRelease.html

    And here:

    http://abanes.com/warren_blanchard.html

    Now, I MUST get back to work……..

    RAbanes

  11. TIM,

    I just ran across the article by John Baker that you have decided to print here at your website. I would ask, since you are so interested in championing truth, that you PLEASE remove that slanderous article by Mr. Baker – IMMEDIATELY. It is alie from beginning to end.

    My book “Inside Today’s Mormonism” is a FULL BLOWN refutation of Mormonism — every major LDS doctrine is broken down and shown to be in error using scripture, reasonable arguments, and direct quotes from many different sources.

    Mr. Baker has never even read the book and he is, flat out lying about what it’s purpose and meaning. You can contact ANY Mormon ministry, including Sandra Tanner in Utah and verify that “Inside Today’s Mormonism” is a complete refutation of Mormonism. You can call Bill McKeever at Mormonism Research Ministries.

    I am very very very serious here, TIM. The book has NOTHING in it about any synthesis between Mormonism and Christianity — and I have tried very hard to tell Baker this and he will NOT listen.

    I pray now, that YOU do the right thing. It is the height of absurdity to think I am trying to blend Mormonism and Christianity. And it is insulting and hurtful to me given the amount of time I have spent witnessing to Mormons and trying to help them see the true Jesus and true Gospel over so many years.

    Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin (James 4:17).

    Do the right thing, Tim. It will show me where you stand for truth.

    R. Abanes

  12. Richard: if you want to comment or dispute the John Baker article you are welcome to do so.
    Tim

  13. PS: Thank you for the Ken Blanchard update as well.
    Tim

  14. Sigh.

    If it is false, which is something you can prove EASILY by simply looking at the book or reading reviews, my question is: Why would you even have it up?? There is nothing to dispute. It’s a lie.

    Now, here we have an example of a plain, clear, easily verifiable lie about someone (a brother in Christ) and something they have written — and you do nothing? How am I to interpret that?

    All you have to do is look at the book, open it up, read a chapter, look at the Table of contents, or contact any other Mormon ministry to verify the truth.

    Why don’t you just do it? Maybe five minutes, tops. Just remove that article that is false. How am I supposed to look at you as someone being fair when you post this kind of stuff that is resoundingly false? There should be no debate about this. What Baker has said is a lie — plain and simple.

    Why are you causing unnecessary division and doubt in the minds of people regarding my stand on Mormonism?

    Please, let us begin working together in pursuit of truth. This is NOT helping when you post something like this. The very source is here — you are getting it from the horses mouth so to speak. It is MY book. I am telling you what is in it. I am telling you what I believe. MORMONISM IS A FALSE RELIGION AND I DESIRE NO SYNTHESIS BETWEEN IT AND CHRISTIANITY.

    Now, I ask you — DO THE RIGHT THING.

    Please reply.

  15. Richard: Thanks for your comments and I do understand you want to defend your book.
    Just so you know I dont go looking for every anti-Abanes article on the net to post here.
    This was the key sentence that was accuratly quoted from your book.
    “Evangelicals and Mormons can no longer view each other as Foes.”
    And I believe the conclusions John came to from that statement were interesting and conclusions I believe were accurate.
    Now you stated for the record-

    “every major LDS doctrine is broken down and shown to be in error using scripture, reasonable arguments, and direct quotes from many different sources. ”

    I dont see John bringing that to issue.

    The issue here is you state that Evangelical and Mormans cannot view each other as foes?
    And I see John coming to logical conclusions.
    That being said I want to mention that you wanted me to look something over for 5 minutes?
    I take much more time than that before I post anything even my own articles.
    But 5 min before removing it?
    I understand where you are coming from though because I believe that you should have removed all your Blanchard Basher anti Lighthouse Trails article’s once you received the accurate information on Ken Blanchard from Bud Press within 5 min.
    Im not going to tell you how to run your site though.
    You may of course post any comments you want on the John Baker article your opinion’s will be noted and remain there.

    I know this is not what you want to hear but let me assure you there is no hate behind my replies.
    Sincerely
    Tim

  16. TIM: “Evangelicals and Mormons can no longer view each other as Foes.” And I believe the conclusions John came to from that statement were interesting and conclusions I believe were accurate. . . . The issue here is you state that Evangelical and Mormons cannot view each other as foes? And I see John coming to logical conclusions.

    RA: Tim, c’mon! The LOGICAL conclusion is that I want a synthesis between Mormonism and Christianity using a Hegelian dialectic in order to bring about a third kind of synthesized religion? You have GOT to be kidding me.

    First, the page he splashes up there is a doctored page!!!! He took the first page quote, then used a paint program to splice in the paragraph from the introductions LAST page!! He deleted everything I said about the problems with Mormonism in between!

    Second, on the very “page” that he reproduces you can see EXACTLY my intention of the sentence: “Evangelicals and Mormons can no longer view each other as Foes.” LOOK AT IT. I quote Eph. 6:12. Are you blind? The “foes” comment is a biblical teaching about us not being at war with the people, but rather, with the spiritual forces behind the doctrines of demons. You are not being fair, honest, open-minded, or Christlike at all. You are making excuses for a liar.

    __________________________
    TIM: “every major LDS doctrine is broken down and shown to be in error using scripture, reasonable arguments, and direct quotes from many different sources. ” I don’t see John bringing that to issue.

    RA: I am almost speechless. You CAN’T be serious. He is accusing me of wanting to create a heretical, hybrid brand of Christianity based on a synthesis of Mormonism and Christianity. And he is implying I am going soft on Mormonism. How in the WORLD would I ever be going “soft” or seeking a synthesis if I am refuting every major LDS belief based on scripture??? This IS the very issue John is discussing.

    Tim, the book is a refutation of Mormonism!!! What is so difficult about that to understand? It’s like any other book from a Christian apologist that deals with Mormon arguments and refutes them. I can’t even believe we are discussing this.

    And I have already told you point blank that I am NOT going “soft” on Mormonism, and I do not want, nor have I ever encouraged ANY kind of synthesis between Mormonism and Christianity. Stop making excuses for Baker, who is lying. And take the article down. You and he are bearing false witness.

    __________________________
    TIM: You may of course post any comments you want on the John Baker article your opinion’s will be noted and remain there.

    RA: Our conversations are over. You blew it. You are willfully and deliberately posting what is easily and resoundingly shown as lies. Regarding my book and its contents you have:

    1. The book itself, which is a clear, direct, straightforward refutation of Mormonism as a false religion.
    2. The very page you post explains exactly what is meant by “Evangelicals and Mormons can no longer view each other as Foes.” The Ephesians 6:12 verse explains it all.
    3. The testimony of any respectable Mormon Ministry, which will verify what my book is about — and it has nothing to do with any synthesis or “soft” stand.
    4. My own testimony that I am NOT seeking a synthesis of the two opposed faiths, as well as my explanation of what exactly I mean by the sentence in question, and my condemnation of Mormonism.

    Now, you have the truth! We are not here trying to guess at what someone else said in a book. I AM HERE TELLING YOU MY BELIEFS AND WHAT THE BOOK SAYS — and it can be verified.

    But instead of doing the right thing per James, you are WILLFULLY choosing to do otherwise. You have become a partaker in John’s sin, and in doing so, have made it your own.

    Wow, talk about being played. Unbelievable.

    Until you take down that article that lies about me, my stand on Mormonism, and the contents of my book “Inside Today’s Mormonism,” our discussions are over. I will not waste my time. At this point, I see you are not interested in truth, but in fighting, attacking, and causing strife/division. You talk about responsibility, not being fair, ignoring truth/facts, doing the right thing, and caring for the body of Christ. But your actions speak louder than words, Tim.

    And as for your condemnation of others: “[I]n the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye” (Matt. 7:1-5)

    Email me when the article is removed. Otherwise, it’s over. And the judgment for destroying a golden opportunity for interaction is on your head.

    Goodbye.

    grieved beyond words,

    R. Abanes

  17. John said

    I believe that was surrounds men like Rick Warren is a “Lying Spirit” It is nothing like anyone has encountered before. It is the same lying spirit of the New Age Movement.

    And if you come into contact with these people and remain with them I believe that you have a strong delusion come over you.

    So with men like Richard Abannes I recognize that what we are dealing with in regards to men like him is as the word of God says:

    Ephesians 6:12:

    For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

    And how do we as True Followers of Christ war against these spiritual hosts?

    Ephesians 6:14-18:

    Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints

    What Richard Abannes does not realize is that although he may claim that Rick Warren is straight up. He only says that because Rick Warren uses Christian Terminology but only as empty container words.

    And within these empty containers he places the defintions that he chooses. This is Post-Modern Relativism.

    Take for example Richard Abannes ascertion that Rick Warren is a Fundamentalist and therefore would not say that ALL Fundamentalists are included in his very public pronouncements against Fundamentalists.

    If you look up what the historical defintion of what a Fundamentalist is, it is not the same as what Rick Warren says a fundamentalist is when he says he is one.

    And this is a major point people need to understand. We have become a sound bite society. And anyone can say they are a fundamentalist and people accept that at face value and they do not question that person on what their understanding of what a Fundamentalist is. That takes too long, that takes being a Good Berean. And no one has time for that anymore.

    Richard Abannes possibley does not even understand this.

    It is not enough to say that you are A Fundamentalist. What counts is, is your understanding of and ability to articulate what a fundamentalist is to others the same as what is the historical definition of Fundamentalism?

    If you go to Richard Abannes website to the article titled: Rick Warren and Fundamentalists:

    http://abanes.com/fundamentalism.html

    And then go to the link he gives on Rick Warren’s Pastors.com website where Rick Warren articulates what a Fundamentalist is you will see this is not the historical defintion of what a Fundamentalist is but a new definition of a fundamentalist created by Rick Warren:

    http://www.pastors.com/RWMT/article.asp?ArtID=9198

    Rick Warren is not a Fundamentalist. He is a Post Modern New Age Relativist who likes to masquerade as a Fundamentalist in order to keep loyalty among his blinded Christian Followers, and to gain the acceptance of other Sleeping Fundamentalist who have allowed themselves to be overcome and heavily influenced by our sound bite society! While he continues to work to undermine Historical Absolute Fundamentalism.

    So it is no suprise that Rick Warren see’s no issue with having Ken Blanchard in his Church and working with him. and neither does Richard Abannes.

    As I have said to other website owners who encounter Richard: Shut him down and do not allow him to wear yo out with his attacks. He has a strong delusion because of the lying spirit that surrounds the likes of Rick Warren and others.

  18. John said

    I wanted to post this last coment in regards to what Richard Abannes said about my article.

    As per my previous comment. There IS a lying spirit that surrounds Rick Warren and it has heavily influenced Richard Abannes. If you box Richard in and ask him specific questions on his views about groups that Rick Warren approves of and works with, you will not get a clear answer!

    The issue is not about Ken Blanchard, It is not about whether Richard Abannes book on Mormonsim refutes the beliefs of Mormonsim, It is the language and methods that these men use!

    They preach teach and write in the language and ideology of Post modern Relativism but using Christian terminology..

    But their Christian words are EMPTY container words that they place their own subjective definitions within! They are not the Absolute Biblical Defintions of those words

    Remember This! It is Key!

    So it is useless to try and get traction with these men to unravel any differences or as they like to call them “Misunderstandings”

    When you encounter a lying spirit, you will not win them over with “dialogue”. They want dialogue. It gives them airtime and legitimacy for their words!

    Ask them specific questions and if they do not give specific answers or if they reply with false straw man analogies SHUT THEM DOWN!

    IF Rick WArren was a True Man of God, and If Ken Blancahrd was a True Man of God they would AVOID ALL POSSIBILITY of their appearing to agree with those who hold to anti-Christ ideologies. They would RUN FROM IT!

    We have become too used to seeing those who claim to be men of God being too wordly! So we allow ourselves to have doubts created in our minds by the likes of Richard Abannes in regards to whether men such as Rick Warren are false teachers.

    Those who hold to a the Biblical Philosophy of antithessis do not conduct themselves and speak in the manner that Rick Warren and Ken Blanchard do.

    Again do not allow them to draw you into doubting what you know to be Biblical Truth.

  19. FROM TRUEDISCERNMENT: “…… [B]ut he has been under Rick Warrens leadership and goes to Saddleback so that in itself speaks words on ones discernment.” Tim Wirth

    Yeah, I see what’s going on Tim. This is disgusting and grievous.
    _________________________
    1. lying, _______________
    …….. which scripture tells us is not to be tolerated: “You shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another” (Lev. 19:11). “A faithful witness will not lie: but a false witness will utter lies ” (Prov. 14:5). Lying is an abomination God HATES (Prov. 6:17, 19). In this same passage that lists “a lying tongue” and “a false witness that speaketh lies,” we read that another thing God hates is “he that soweth discord among the brethren (see Prov. 6:19), which leads us to sin #2 — contention/strife/division. (BTW, according to the Wycliffe Bible Commentary, “sowing discord” actually means, “Literally, lets loose strife.”)

    2. divisiveness, _______________
    …….. which scripture forbids in the words of Paul, who declared: “But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another” (Gal. 5:15). And again, we read: “For ye are yet carnal: whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and division, are ye not carnal and walk as men?” (1 Cor. 3:3). The destructive nature of division, of course, is that it WEAKENS a house (see Mark 3:24-25). As Proverbs 16: 28 reads: “A perverse man spreads strife, and a slanderer separates intimate friends,” which leads us to sin #3″ — slander and and bearing false witness against another Christian.

    3. slander, _______________
    …….. which is something God really, really, really doesn’t like. And I would imagine he gets especially ticked off at slander when it happens to be about one of the shepherds leading the flock of God. The scriptures regarding bearing false witness and slander are many, even equating a “false witness” with deceit (see Prov. 12:17). Consider, too, the following verses:

    ” Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor” (Ex. 23:1).
    “Be not a witness against thy neighbor without cause; and deceive not with thy lips” (Prov. 24:28).
    “[D]o not love perjury; for all these are what I hate, declares the LORD” (Zech 8:17).
    “[H]e who spreads slander is a fool” (Prov. 10:18).

    All of these things, when viewed in light of the current issue, are directly related top preserving the unity of the Body of Christ, which we are commanded to guard:

    “… live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble”
    (1 Peter 3:8)

    “… conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in one spirit, contending as one man for the faith of the gospel” (Phil 1:27).

    “… I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought”
    (1 Cor. 1:10)

    “But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God”
    (1 Cor. 11:16).

    God be your judge———–

  20. John said

    Richard Abannes quoted from Ephesians 6:12 to say that we are not to be enemies of Mormons and other Anti-Christ Cults and Belief systems such as Roman Catholicism.

    He uses this to say that anyone who calls them an enemy of Christ is violating that passage, but this clearly shows that Richard Abannes does not understand Scripture AT ALL!

    This passage simply means you can not and must not use fleshly weapons i.e. power, force or war to change people who are not of Christ. Because the powers that keep them from believing are satanic spiritual powers and the only way those satanic spiritual powers can be defeated are by:

    Ephesians 6:13-18:

    Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
    Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints

    But it does not mean the people in these groups are not enemies of Christ and therefore enemies of those who hold to a Biblical Faith!

    What Richard Abannes fails to see or refuses to see is that these people have access to the truth but turn away from it therefore they have made themselves an enemy of Christ!

    Christians have not made them an enemy!

    But Rick Warren and others would have you believe that Mormons do not believe because of Christians being mean to them by saying they are an enemy of Christ! And therefore Christians should not count them as foes or enemies. We are most definitely foes and enemies with them because they corrupt the Word of God and deny that God and Jesus have always been God!

    You do not play with groups who have access to the truth but turn away from it!

    1 John 2:18-23:

    Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth. Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

    Richard Abannes seems to think that you can dialogue these people back into the Kingdom, you cannot! They have been overcome by a satanic spirit!

    The same as people such as Rick Warren who uses Atheistic ideologies to teach and preach! This is a denial of the Power and working of the Holy Spirit in believers lives!

    As the Apostle Paul says in 2 Timothy 3:5-7:

    Having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

    Rick Warren, Richard Abanes and Ken Blanchard have a FORM of Godliness but by their ideology that they teach, by their words and actions they deny the power of the Holy Spirit and that it is the Holy Spirit that changes man not some atheist psychological teaching!

  21. >But it does not mean the people in these groups are not enemies of Christ and therefore enemies of those who hold to a Biblical Faith!

    _________________
    Yeah, I never said that either. You can’t understand English.

    Read my book for starters, then while you’re at it, read:

    1 Timothy 2:24-26: “And the Lord’s servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.”

    AND

    1 Peter 3:15: “But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,”

    Maybe you’ll catch on eventually to what I am actually saying in the book. John, you need to check your heart, bro. This is not of God. Stop lying. Mormons, theologically speaking, and also in their attempts to spread a false gospel and a false Jesus are indeed enemies of the cross. There — happy? But we don’t have to be mean, nasty, hateful, mean-spirited and mocking when we talk to them like they are some kind of “foe” we’re trying to beat down into submission.

    OBEY SCRIPTURE.
    OBEY 2 Tim. 2:24-26.
    OBEY 1 Peter 3:15.
    OBEY 1 Cor. 13:4-13

    Repent, John. Repent. And read the above passages as well as the aforementioned verses on lying, division/strife, and slander. Again, I say, repent. You are only making your judgment worse by pushing the accusations and false accusing me of more, and more, and more. It’s not going to free you, or give you peace, or give you rest. Repent, and kneel at the foot of the cross, in humility, asking Christ to open your eyes.

  22. John said

    RA SAid:

    But we don’t have to be mean, nasty, hateful, mean-spirited and mocking when we talk to them like they are some kind of “foe” we’re trying to beat down into submission.

    I say:

    And where is anyone being mean, nasty, mean-spirited and mocking to them? I dont see anyone doing that! What I do see is the likes of Rick Warren going to groups such as Conservative Rabbinical Jews, Roman and Catholics and assisting them in building up their congregations via the Purpose Driven Movement but not once does he witness about Christ to them. Oh yeah thats right he considers Roman Catholicism a valid Christian Faith doesnt he?

    Richard show me one place in Scripture where we are to go and assist religions that Deny Christ or make Faith in Jesus Christ of none effect by saying that anyone who believes that faith alone in Christ saves them is Anathema, to build up their congregations?

    That alone Shows that Rick Warren is a false Teacher. And oh by the way YOU never answered the question over at Discernit on whether you believe that Roman Catholicism is a valid Christian Faith.

    Your lack of clear absolute answer on that makes it clear that you are not a brother in Christ, OK?

    I am not hear to find a common ground with you or build a bridge with you.

    You Richard are someone who accuses others of what you yourself do on a regular basis. i.e. speaking falsely about others, calling them names, being mean spirited etc etc.

    So please save your Self Righteous accusations!

    And in regards to repenting for lying, division/strife and slander I say to you: READ YOUR OWN COMMENTS , You are the one who has a long and continuing history of these sins! not to mention a long and continuing history of false finger pointing.

    I have no intention of getting into any lengthy dialogue with you!

    you have a lying Spirit with you, you are not of Christ, as if you were you could clearly discern that Rick Warren is not of Christ!

    You would clearly see that he uses Atheist Psychology to teach and preach. you would clearly see that he twists Scripture to make it mean what HE wants.

    You would clearly see that he is ashamed of the Cross!

    When you want to answer specific questions instead of coming to web sites wagging your finger and saying shame shame to everyone who RIGHTLY DISCERNS Who and what Rick Warren is and what you are then we might be able to talk, but until then save your accusations they have no validity and they have make no impression upon me!

    In closing, You Mr Abanes travel the internet to attempt to shut ANYONE down who speaks against Rick Warren.

    Speaking Hypothetically, if you and Mr Warren were of God, you would ignore what is said.

    Truth MR Abanes does not need to try and shut any and ALL dissent down. It stands on its own merits. you prove over and over that what you speak of yourself and what you speak of Rick Warren is not the Truth because you cannot accept ANY dissent from your views. YOU MUST HAVE NO DISSENTERS!

    This Mr Abanes is the classis symptom of Post-Modern Relativism! Not one who holds to Scriptural Truth.

    Godo Day

  23. Bud Press said

    Dear Richard:

    As one who has spent a considerable amount of time researching and addressing the “Evangelical/Mormon dialogues,” what John Baker is saying is true. There is a wicked spirit that overshadows the dialogues, which goes hand-in-hand with a carefully orchestrated agenda on the part of the Mormon church to be recognized as Christian.

    For example, we have encountered that wicked spirit flowing in the Greg Johnson/Robert Millet dialogues. It is so deceptive and seductive that it even conditions and deceives seminary presidents and professors–then trickles down to pastors, apologists, and cult-evangelists, then laymen.

    And during the process, the innocent and unwary are captivated by the false love and warm-and-fuzzy conversation. Hidden deception in plain sight. Once the deception is allowed to slither into the mind of the believer, it opens the door for a more deeper, darker, sinister deception to enter in.

    Only those who truly love the Lord, study their Bibles, and gain discernment will be spared. Sound exclusive?

    “Teach me good discernment and knowledge, for I believe in Your commandments” (Psalm 119:66).

    “But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil” (Hebrews 5:14).

    “Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour” (1 Peter 5:8).

    If we aren’t “street-wise” to the scam-artists, we will be ripped-off financially. If we aren’t “discernment-wise” to demonic deception, we open the door to being scammed spiritually.

    I find it incredible that in many cases, those who claim to be Christian fail miserably to place their complete confidence in God’s holy and inspired word. Instead, they choose to rely on their own understanding (Proverbs 3:5), and entrust their spiritual welfare to the teachings of men, many of whom are spiritually corrupt and have not the God-given ability to discern truth from error.

    What pastor in his right mind would allow a Mormon to share Mormonism’s doctrines of demons with his congregation? What apologist in his right mind would endorse a book written by an enemy of the cross? And what cult-evangelist in his right mind would support a known cultist or New Ager?

    God’s word teaches: “See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ” (Colossians 2:8).

    Failure to read, study, and trust God’s word is one reason why professing Christians are joined-at-the-hip with cultists and New Age occultists. And as long as those professing Christians have their own cheerleading section–filled with compromisers and hypocrites–they will attempt to blend truth with lies, work to blur-the-line between Christian and non-Christian, and deceive precious souls for whom Jesus Christ died for.

    Let us not forget the eight woes Jesus spoke in Matthew chapter 23. Jesus Christ is our greatest example of love and compassion. He told the truth in love and refused to compromise. We are to follow His example.

    Sometimes, the truth hurts and offends. But, better to offend someone in love than to withhold the truth.

    Sincerely in Christ,
    Bud Press
    Jude 3

  24. You are all hopeless ……………… you have no ears to hear a thing.

    You’re as bad as the cultists I’ve witnessed to over the years. You don’t want to hear or listen to anything. It’s kind of amazing, actually. And it’s a bit terrifying

    This has nothing to do with truth. You have all your memorized scriptures that you spout like magick phrases without knowing their meaning or understanding how to use them appropriately. You don’t want to talk, understand, grow, change, mature, think out of your little box. You want to fight, attack, accuse the brethren (implication intended), find enemies to battle, and when there aren’t any enemies, you create them so you’ll be sure to have people to fight with.

    I give you a clear example of where one of your own has flatly lied about someone (i.e., me), lied about what a book plainly says (i.e., “Inside Today’s Mormonism”) and you utterly ignore it, and turn your tape recordings back on.

    It’s useless. I tried. God knows I tried with all my might to reason with you people. You will not have it. My conscience is clean. I think we’re all pretty much through here. This is so sad.

    Communication has been terminated — way to go Tim, way to go. And you, too, Bud. You both had an opportunity. And you destroyed it with your hate, and desire to fight, argue, divide, and spread yet more lies. Truth? Love? Discernment? You don’t know the meaning of the words.

  25. John said

    RA Said:

    1. You don’t want to talk, understand, grow, change, mature, think out of your little box.

    2. You want to fight, attack, accuse the brethren (implication intended),

    3. find enemies to battle, and when there aren’t any enemies,

    4. you create them so you’ll be sure to have people to fight with.

    I say:

    Richard thank you for making clear AGAIN that you use a Post Modern New Age Relativist Ideology and language.

    your accusations are the same tired over used buzz words trotted out by ALL Emergents and New Ager “Christians” against those who refuse to engage in Dialogue with anti-Christ belief systems in order to in your words: “grow, change, mature, think out of your little box” .”

    But what you fail to see Richard or worse refuse to accept , Is that there is NOTHING to learn from other Religions, There is NO NEW TRUTH to be gained from them.

    Again you use these words: “grow” , “change” “mature” and “think out of the box” with New Age, New Theology defintions to say that if someone refuses to accept “New Truth” i.e. “Truth” that is non-Biblical then that person is not mature, is mean spirit, has stopped listening etc etc.

    But your new age analogies are FALSE! They are not grounded in God’s Word but grounded non-christian fallen fleshly ideologies.

    You keep saying that your not talking about gaining new Truth from other religions but simply dialoguing with them. But you have already said that you agree that other religions have some Truth! And you believe it is all right to use that as a common ground to Dialogue!

    You cannot understand what is wrong with this belief! Here is a clue: If the root (the origin of the false Religion) is evil, it cannot produce ANT GOOD FRUIT! That is why you do not say anything in regards to your ideology and methodology in the Bible, In actual fact God’s Word instrusts us to do the opposite!

    1 Corinthians 2: 1-5:

    And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

    You know nothing of the Power of the Holy spirit, and that it is the Holy Spirit that convicts people and brings them to salvation. And we are to just be there preaching and teaching the clear word of God, Not Dialoging with people to make them feel comfortable and affirming that they have “some truth”!

    No we are to let everyone know that we are all slaves to sin and within all of us there is nothing good that can lift us out of sin and eventual damnation, except the shed blood of Jesus Christ when we believe in him! And in his Word!

    Also what is worse is your ideology and methdology are derived from fallen Atheistic Humanism Ideologies! So again an EVIL Root cannot produce good fruit!

    It is the height of fallen fleshly Pride to say that Atheistic Ideologies can “enhance” or help God’s Word in reaching people! This idea derives from nothing else but Satanic rebellion against God! It exhalts man’s ideologies above God’s Word!

    So Rail on Mr Abanes! Throw your accusations. I do not hate you or revile you, I actually weep for you because you are blind and subdued by a strong delusion.

    As Francis Shaeffer, a giant among 20th century Theologians points out Theology is the last area in our society to be affected and subdued by the idea of relative Truth and its all pervasive inclusive ideology:

    “Wherever you look today, the new concept holds the field. The consensus about us is almost monolithic, whether you review the arts, literature or simply read the newspapers and magazines such as Time, Life, Newsweek, The Listener or The Observer. On every side you can feel the stranglehold of this new methodology-and by “methodology” we mean the way we approach truth and knowing. It is like suffocating in a particularly bad London fog. And just as fog cannot be kept out by walls or doors, so this consensus comes in around us, until the room we live in is no longer unpolluted, and yet we hardly realize what has happened. . . . .”

    The tragedy of our situation today is that men and women are being fundamentally affected by the new way of looking at truth, and yet they have never even analyzed the drift which has taken place. Young people from Christian homes are brought up in the old framework of truth. Then they are subjected to the modern framework. In time they become confused because they do not understand the alternatives with which they are being presented.

    Confusion becomes bewilderment, and before long they are over­whelmed. This is unhappily true not only of young people, but of many pastors, Christian educators, evangelists and missionaries as well. “

    RA Said:

    Communication has been terminated — way to go Tim, way to go. And you, too, Bud. You both had an opportunity. And you destroyed it with your hate, and desire to fight, argue, divide, and spread yet more lies. Truth? Love? Discernment? You don’t know the meaning of the words.

    I say:

    Again Richard you show in the above paragraph your Post-Modern Relativist Ideology and Methodology, if your view is not accepted then your mask comes off and you bear your teeth! And what you previously accused others of, You Do!

  26. Bud Press said

    Richard, I will wear your persecution as a Badge of Honor for Jesus Christ.

    “Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you” (Matthew 5:10-12).

    Bud Press

  27. John said

    in regards to my statement:

    it is the Holy Spirit that convicts people and brings them to salvation. And we are to just be there preaching and teaching the clear word of God, Not Dialoging with people to make them feel comfortable and affirming that they have “some truth”!

    I wantd to add that when the Word of God is preached i.e. Christ Crucified, then the Holy Spirit is present to convict people of Sin! And to draw them to Salvation! However when you attempt to use fallen man made “wisdom” ie fallen man made ideologies, dialoging to “enhance” or “help” God’s Word, the Holy Spirit is not present and you are operating solely in the flesh, and that is why you see the outlandish and unBiblical Methodologies you see today! And further when you use those fallen fleshly ideologies and methodlogies you leave yourself open to be subdued by the lying spirits that inhabit those whom you are attempting to witness to!

    The end result? Ken Blanchard, Rick Warren and other Emerging “Progressive., “Paradigm Shift” Ideologies that incorporate elements of false belief systems into their ministries and churches!

  28. ROFL – now you guys have just gone kooky. You are living on another planet, in another dimension of your own reality created from the most bizarre religious delusions I have ever witnessed up close and personal. Now, there is simply no reason to talk to you because, well, to be honest, you just can’t even understand plain old English anymore.

    Oh, BTW, for the record:

    – Mormonism is false.
    – The New Age Movement is false.
    – Post-Modern Relativism is false.
    – There is no “New” truth, any so-called “truth” if it contradicts the Bible, is not a “truth at all.
    – Atheistic Humanism is false.

    cya and enjoy your fantasies. 🙂

  29. Bud Press said

    Richard, you forgot one: Ken Blanchard is a New Ager…

  30. John said

    RA Said:

    Oh, BTW, for the record:

    – Mormonism is false.
    – The New Age Movement is false.
    – Post-Modern Relativism is false.
    – There is no “New” truth, any so-called “truth” if it contradicts the Bible, is not a “truth at all.
    – Atheistic Humanism is false.

    I say:

    Again it is not enough to just say this, it is your actions and the actions of those you support that are the litmus test! And in this regard Mr Abanes, you fail, Rick Warren Fails. Ken Blanchard Fails.

    It is the normal tactic of the “New” New Agers to say the things you just said and to keep the peace in their Christian circles, but then turn around DO the opposite.

    So I have no problem AT ALL in being in another reality than YOURS!

  31. Tim Wirth said

    Richard: Just a comment. I apoligized to you because my word choices in the past have been poor. That doesnt mean I apoligize for what I have said just the way I have said it. Its funny through all of these I have felt nothing but love for you ( Im being trueful here not just using rehtoric) which is really weird so I know it must be God. I do not want to try to find common ground with you to team up for a single purpose.
    I think your in the wrong camp. This whole site is dedicated to exposing Rick Warren and Seeker Sensitive as well as Warrens associations with New Agers and False Teachers.
    Ricks root when he put Saddlback together was not scriptural and your book on him documents that as well. The Bible does not teach that we asked the opinion of the unsaved on how to do church.
    Our assemblies are for believers even though the unsaved may attend.
    We should make all unbelievers feel loved and welcome but we dont dumb down the message or gear it toward felt needs.
    This is how you state Warren prepares for a sermon.
    “For instance, at pastors.com, we hear him talking about how he forms his Easter message, saying, “As I go through these things, first I sit down, and I start praying. I start thinking about people I know who are going to be there. People I have invited, like my doctor, an atheist Jew who came for Easter. I start thinking: “Now what is going to help this guy know about Christ?” and I will go through that little formula and think about the points for my sermon” (Ministry Toolbox, Issue #221)
    This approach may seem nice with well intentions but it doesnt stack up with scripture look at Peter in Acts 2:37-42 “37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”
    38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”

    A Vital Church Grows

    40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.” 41 Then those who gladly[a] received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. 42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers

    Notice the order here people were saved and then added to the church.
    Once they get to church how and why is the preaching done and why.
    11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ—

    Eph 4:11-15 ” 11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ—”

    At least Hybels and Will Creek had the guts to admit they were wrong in this style of preaching and grew weak Christians. Though Willow Creek is still headed down the wrong road and headed toward the new spirituality because they add to the word with new insights and whatever.
    By Warrens own admission above he is not gearing his sermon to building strong Christian’s but to the felt needs of a unbeliever. Its our job as Christians to go out and share the gospel with man such as the one Rick mentioned, and then when they get saved they are added to the church.
    Warrens approach is unbiblical and backwards.
    And he may quote his love for Spurgeon and whoever. He can even collect Spurgeons original sermon notes and keep them in a glass cage.
    But you can see by Ricks preaching that he is not influenced or preaches like Spurgeon.
    I cant imagine Spurgeon walking into Saddleback
    Here is a Spurgeon quote-
    “C.H. Spurgeon

    The Church of God has gone into the entertainment business! People must be amused, and as the church needs the people’s money, the church must supply the demand and meet the craving! How else are godless hypocrites to be held together? So the picture show and entertainment… take the place of the gospel address and the solemn worship of God. And, thus, Christ less souls are lulled to sleep and made to feel ‘religious’ while gratifying every carnal desire under the sanction of the sham called the church! And the end? What an awakening [in eternity]!

    Would he have went to Saddleback?
    I think not because of where he stood.

    Churches like Saddleback and Willow Creek may be 10 -25 thousand people wide.
    But they are only a inch deep.
    I know this mat hurt friends and fans of Saddleback but you cannot defend a man who started a church based on what the unsaved want.
    And know we see the fruit of this unbiblical movement and new religion Rick Warren has created apart from scripture.
    Tim
    Tim

  32. […] the scenes, Abanes was as busy-as-a-beaver posting multiple, lengthy replies on blogs such as Tim Wirth’s Weblog, DiscernIt, CRN.Info, Phoenix Preacher, SimpleMindedPreacher, as well as his own POP CULTURE […]

  33. […] the scenes, Abanes was as busy-as-a-beaver posting multiple, lengthy replies on blogs such as Tim Wirth’s Weblog, DiscernIt, CRN.Info, Phoenix Preacher, SimpleMindedPreacher, as well as his own POP CULTURE […]

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