No where in scripture does the Bible  teach we are to team up with unbelievers to fight a common cause or to exchange ideas. This is one of the root problems of Rick Warren, Robert Schuller and many others.

Of course there will be situations like our employment where we have to work with unbelievers in order to earn a paycheck. No where in scripture do I find believers team up with unbelievers to feed the poor or clothe the naked (no matter how good this sounds).

The Apostles used the church and the deacons to take care of each other.

Acts 4:34-35

34Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, 35And laid them down at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

Acts 6:1-4

1 Now in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplying, there arose a complaint against the Hebrews by the Hellenists,[a] because their widows were neglected in the daily distribution. 2 Then the twelve summoned the multitude of the disciples and said, “It is not desirable that we should leave the word of God and serve tables. 3 Therefore, brethren, seek out from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business; 4 but we will give ourselves continually to prayer and to the ministry of the word.”

The Body of Christ is still in the business of doing these it has not ceased since the word was written in scripture. But if you listen to guys like Rick Warren you may think there is some sense of urgency to squash the worlds big problems where it clearly states in scripture that the church takes care of its own as well as helping those in need. We do not team up with the Muslims, Hindus or any unbelievers to fight some common cause.

The early church did not practice this we should learn from then because whats good then is still good now.

Instead the Bible teaches this.

Eph 5:11

11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret.

We are not in the business of coming together to find common ground with unbelievers  in spiritual matters.

2 Corinthians 6:14

14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

From A Dennis Bratcher commentary-

Paul simply says that being Christian means that the Corinthians can no longer practice the activities of pagan worship or pagan ethics, since those are things that should not be mixed with the worship of God. In other words, what they did ethically mattered a great deal if they were claiming to be Christians. end quote

Again this doesnt mean we dont come into contact with the world at work or the mall or wherever. Conferences like Rethink and Seeds of Compassion are events to strive to  to find common ground on spiritual things. We have NO common ground  with unbelievers on spiritual things. Again one of Rick Warrens biggest errors and something scripture does not teach or allow.

Erwin McManus Teams Up with Robert Schuller – Could Have Far-Reaching Effects

Source: Lighthouse Trails

Robert SchullerIn January 2008, the Rethink Conference will take place at Robert Schuller’s Crystal Cathedral. According to Church Communication Network (CCN), the event will be hosted by Robert Schuller and Erwin McManus. Erwin McManus

On the Rethink Conference website, the event is described as: “Leading Thinkers and Influencers offer a perspective you may never have imagined.” These thinkers and influencers include a wide array of prominent personalities such as Kay Warren, Chuck Colson, former president H.W. Bush, Larry King, John and Nancy Ortberg, Rupert Murdoch, Gary Smalley, and of course hosts Robert Schuller and Erwin McManus. While at first glance there might appear to be little, if anything, in common between these speakers. However, a number of them do have one thing in common, and that is a propensity toward contemplative (i.e., mystical) spirituality. Those would include Kay Warren, the Ortbergs, Erwin McManus, Robert Schuller, Dan Kimball, and H.B. London Jr. (Focus on the Family).

According to the conference site, “If you want to increase your influence as a leader in an ever-changing culture, then … Rethink gives you the tools and perspectives you need to lead today.” The event is designed for pastors and leaders in particularly, and promises that even theologically conservative pastors will feel comfortable. Ironically enough, many of the speakers whom Christian pastors and leaders might be more willing to trust (those who are professing Christians) may be the very ones who will pass on a mystical perspective. For instance, H.B. London Jr. is an avid promoter of Richard Foster’s spiritual formation, and Erwin McManus, who says it is his goal to destroy Christianity, claims that the core of his book, The Barbarian Way, is mysticism.2 Kay Warren recommends Henri Nouwen’s contemplative book, In the Name of Jesus, and her husband Rick Warren has supported the contemplative (spiritual formation) movement for years (see ATOD, ch. 8)

While Robert Schuller will be representing Christianity as well, he too has a long history of mystical affinities. Listen to Ray Yungen explain:

[W]hat many might not know about Schuller is his New Thought proclivities. Interspiritual scholar Marcus Bach once related the following incident that took place at a Unity church in Hawaii in which Bach was speaking:

Dr. Schuller attended the first of three services, this one at 7:30 am. When we shook hands at the door, he tarried to assure me how much Unity principles meant to him and how helpful they had been to him in his work.

What could some of these Unity principles be? Bach explains:

Hinduism’s emphasis on meditation fit[s] well into Unity’s patterns for enlightenment.

This is one of the major principles that Schuller was making reference to. In his own book, Prayer: My Soul’s Adventure with God, he says:

Move into mighty moods of meditation. Draw energy from centers of sacred solitude, serenity, and silence… Find yourself coming alive in the garden of prayer called meditation…. Yes, the “New Agers” have grabbed hold of meditation…. Hey, Christian! Hear me! Let’s not give up the glorious, God-given gift of meditation by turning it over to those outside our faith.

The point that Schuller misses is that meditation is what makes a person a New Ager! This perspective is something to consider in light of the quarter million pastors who have trained and been mentored under Schuller at his Leadership Institute.

The Rethink Conference is bringing together leaders from several different philosophical and religious camps under the auspices of Robert Schuller. If one wonders what his purpose is, that answer might be found in his book, My Journey, when he states:

I met once more with the Grand Mufti (a Muslim), truly one of the great Christ-honoring leaders of faith…. I’m dreaming a bold impossible dream: that positive-thinking believers in God will rise above the illusions that our sectarian religions have imposed on the world, and that leaders of the major faiths will rise above doctrinal idiosyncrasies, choosing not to focus on disagreements, but rather to transcend divisive dogmas to work together to bring peace and prosperity and hope to the world…. p. 502

Standing before a crowd of devout Muslims with the Grand Mufti, I know that we’re all doing God’s work together. Standing on the edge of a new millennium, we’re laboring hand in hand to repair the breach.” p. 501

What is really taking place at the Rethink Conference is the reality of Schuller’s dream that there be a global unity among all religions and beliefs and that all these paths lead to the same God (i.e., “we’re all doing God’s work” and all these paths can “bring peace and prosperity and hope to the world.”) The glue is mysticism, and this is what is being inculcated at the Rethink Conference. The effects of this could be far-reaching as you can see by the earlier quotes.

For more information on interspirituality, click here.


World Net Daily Interviews Rick Warren – The Truth Behind the Words

Source: Lighthouse Trails

This week, WorldNet Daily posted three articles written by WND reporter and editor Art Moore. The articles were the result of a recent interview Moore conducted at Saddleback with Rick Warren, author of Purpose Driven Life, covering a wide gamut of topics from Rick Warren’s global P.E.A.C.E. plan, to his efforts in environmentalism, to his trip to Syria last year and so forth.Much of the content in the articles by Moore has been written about by numerous other media outlet over the last few years. But one particular section of article #1 originated from a letter that Rick Warren wrote to Lighthouse Trails in 2005. In the WND article (#1) under the heading “Blogs Copy Blogs,” a man named George Mair is brought up. Mair is the author of a 2005 book titled A Life with Purpose. The book is a biography of Rick Warren and meant as a testament of praise. Mair told Lighthouse Trails that he had attended Saddleback as a congregant for many months while researching and writing the book, and he gave financially to Saddleback during that time. Mair said that he had greatly admired Rick Warren, which is what prompted him to write the book in the first place. However, Warren did not reciprocate the admiration, and in fact came out against the book, but not until the book was mentioned in a 2005 Lighthouse Trails report that triggered a response from Warren.

In our 2005 article titled, “Rick Warren Teams Up With New Age Guru Ken Blanchard,” it was reported that in 2003 Warren told his congregation that Blanchard had “signed on” to help implement the global P.E.A.C.E. Plan and to train leaders around the world.(click here to listen to audio clip) Mair mentioned this in his book, and author Ray Yungen, who read Mair’s book, realized the significance of the Warren/Blanchard duo because Yungen had been tracing Blanchard’s New Age proclivities for many years. Blanchard has been endorsing New Age books and writing the forewords for many of them for over 20 years. (Extensive documentation on this can be found at CRS.) Today, he continues this practice and is also on the board of the Hoffman Institute, a New Age think tank and home to the Hoffman Quadrinity Process (based on the book The Hoffman Process that teaches mysticism and panentheism).

Five weeks after the Lighthouse Trails article was released, Rick Warren wrote a personal letter to LT editor Deborah Dombrowski – within hours of his sending that email, it was posted on one of his co-worker’s websites. Excerpts from that email circulated throughout the web and were even used in letters from Saddleback to an unknown number of people. Some of the contents of this email ended up in the WND report this week.

Warren’s email to Lighthouse Trails was primarily statements against Mair’s book. In fact, Warren went to great lengths to discredit Mair and his book by making several statements that were not true. Most of his criticisms of the book were trivial such as saying that Mair got the number of children Warren had wrong. Incredibly, Mair never even alluded to how many children Warren had. Another, Warren said Mair called Robert Schuller Warren’s mentor. But Mair never said that at any time.

In both Warren’s letter to LT and in the WND article, Warren says that Mair “is not even a Christian.” Yet, Mair told LT he considers himself a Christian and he wonders why Rick Warren would say that. In Warren’s letter to LT, he called Mair an “unbeliever” and said he was “not even born again.”

Warren’s letter to LT also discussed Ken Blanchard. Warren excused Blanchard for his New Age indiscretions saying he was a new convert. However, in a 2004 transcript, Warren is talking with Blanchard in a public forum, and they discuss how Blanchard became a Christian in the 80s. Thus, when he wrote the following year to LT and claimed Blanchard a new convert, he already knew that wasn’t true (see transcript).

The question many may have is, why is Rick Warren trying to discredit a book by someone (Mair) who spoke in glowing terms about Warren and called him “the most inspiring pastor of our time”? The answer, we believe, has nothing to do with whether Mair got it right about how many children Warren has.

In light of the fact that Rick Warren tells WND that he is not connected at all to Robert Schuller (see Schuller on Warren’s website) “and doesn’t even know him, perhaps it is time those looking for the truth take a look at Mair’s book, A Life with Purpose, for within the pages lies some interesting information. Incidentally, while the WND article clearly shows that Warren wants nothing to do with Schuller, Warren’s wife, Kay, is one of the speakers scheduled at the upcoming Rethink conference at Schuller’s Crystal Cathedral this January. This would certainly validate her comments to Christianity Today a few years ago when she said: “He [Schuller] had a profound influence on Rick.”

In Mair’s book, he gives a fascinating account and history of the church growth movement and the resulting mega-church explosion. Mair asks the question:

[W]hat are the roots of this powerful movement? Rick Warren may be the foremost figure in the CGM today, but he’s only a piece – albeit an important one – of a greater development in the Christian Church. Who and what gave birth to this movement in which Rick would play such a vital role?

Mair then begins a section titled: “Laying the Groundwork: New Age Preacher Norman Vincent Peale.” Mair explains that Peale’s self-help movement formed the groundwork for the Church Growth Movement and formed a link between theology and psychology. “Without that unification,” Mair says, “mega churches wouldn’t exist today” (p. 100)….Saddleback distinctly bears the stamp of Reverend Norman Vincent Peale” (see Peale on Warren’s website) No doubt, this statement must greatly bother Rick Warren. There is evidence that Peale was involved in the occult. In fact, Mair points out Peale’s connection to occultist Florence Scovel Shinn.

Mair’s book also discusses some intriguing things about Robert Schuller. Showing Schuller’s role in the church growth movement, he quotes Schuller: “I have been credited or blamed – both are correct – as the founder of the mega church…. I launched the mega church movement through the Institute of Successful Church Leadership.” It was this institute of which Kay Warren spoke so fondly, and of which Schuller says: “He [Warren] came to our institute time after time.” And on Schuller’s website, there is a statement today that says the Institute “mentored” Rick Warren.

But according to the WND interview with Rick Warren, Moore says Warren insists he was NOT mentored by Schuller:

Many false claims, he contended, have taken on a life of their own on Internet blogs, such as assertions he was mentored by positive-thinking pastor Robert Schuller and influenced by Norman Vincent Peale.

This much is for sure: Schuller claims that Warren was trained at his institute, Kay Warren has acknowledged that Schuller had a great impact on her husband, yet Rick Warren denies any connection to Schuller and goes to the extent of discrediting a book that points out both his connection to Robert Schuller AND Ken Blanchard. The question that must be answered is, why?

What is taking place here really has nothing to do with George Mair’s book, because what it says about Blanchard and Schuller can easily be proven and is not at all contingent on the book; all the book does is point to these truths and is a qualifier of what is already true and obvious. But the reason we bring it up is because, at least according to the WND article, Warren is still trying to discredit the book, and we believe this is a disguised effort to conceal the influence Schuller, and his beliefs,) have had on Warren. It is interesting to note how this WND article bringing Schuller back into the picture comes shortly before Kay Warren will be speaking at the Crystal Cathedral at the Rethink.

Robert Schuller is what could be called a New Age Christian. Former New Age follower Warren Smith has documented this in his book Deceived on Purpose, where he shows the connection between New Ager Gerald Jampolsky (an evangelist for the New Age bible, A Course in Miracles) and Schuller. Even today, one of Jampolsky’s books has a place on the shelves of the Crystal Cathedral bookstore. That very book, Forgiveness, has a foreword by New Age leader Neale Donald Walsch (see * below). Author and research analyst Ray Yungen also documents Schuller’s New Age affinities in his book For Many Shall Come in My Name, pointing out Schuller’s promotion of Hindu meditation. And in Schuller’s 2001 autobiography, My Journey, Schuller says some things that should truly alarm any Bible-believing Christian:

I met once more with the Grand Mufti [a Muslim], truly one of the great Christ-honoring leaders of faith. … I’m dreaming a bold impossible dream: that positive-thinking believers in God will rise above the illusions that our sectarian religions have imposed on the world, and that leaders of the major faiths will rise above doctrinal idiosyncrasies, choosing not to focus on disagreements, but rather to transcend divisive dogmas to work together to bring peace and prosperity and hope to the world…. (p. 502)

Standing before a crowd of devout Muslims with the Grand Mufti, I know that we’re all doing God’s work together. Standing on the edge of a new millennium, we’re laboring hand in hand to repair the breach.” (p. 501)

In view of Warren’s recent apologizing to Muslims on behalf of all Christians, his trip to Syria last year where he minimized persecution of Christians and sat with the Grand Mufti, and his own words where he says his global P.E.A.C.E. plan and a new reformationthroughout the world can be accomplished through both Christians and Muslims, it appears that Warren was listening very closely to Schuller when he was trained at the Robert Schuller Institute.

Today, Rick Warren stands among several prominent Christian leaders who are helping to usher in what is called the three-legged stool, which they believe will eventually bring global peace, and as Warren puts it, eradicate the major problems that the world has. This three-legged stool is the merging of government, business (or economics), and religion. This is why Warren says he will work with anyone in order to reach his objectives. This is why Robert Schuller is having the Rethink conference in January with leaders from all three sectors of society, and this is why Willow Creek does the same thing at their Leadership Summits.

The more one studies Schuller, the more one can see the marks of Rick Warren. But one thing is for sure, Rick Warren doesn’t want people to see these marks, and the WND article joined the ranks of media that have helped Rick Warren convince people nothing is amiss. While countless people will read the WND article, and far fewer will read this expose’, the facts remain true, and the documentation stands – and in the mean time Warren continues going toward his ecumenical reformation or spiritual awakening as he sometimes refers to it. Just weeks ago, Ken Blanchard returned to Saddleback to speak, and in January New Age proponent Leonard Sweet is scheduled to speak at Saddleback for a small groups training conference.

With nearly every major media outlet, both secular and Christian, reporting news on Warren, often using Warren as the only source of the story and virtually never quoting those critics who actually have solid documentation, one can only hope that WorldNet Daily does not become another platform for Warren. This week, however, Warren has used WND to evangelize the world once again with a gospel that incorporates the beliefs of all people and all religions and propagates a new reformation that is anything but biblical.

* In Neale Donald Walsch’s book, Conversations with God (Book 2), he says that Hitler did the Jews a favor by killing them, and even Hitler will be in heaven. And yet as grotesque as this is, Crystal Cathedral carries a book with his foreword (Jampolsky), and now Christian leaders like Kay Warren, Erwin McManus, Gary Smalley and many others will appear at the Rethink conference in January at Crystal Cathedral! (see chapter 11 of For Many Shall Come in My Name for more on Walsch.

Note: For a detailed account of Rick Warren’s role in bringing about the three-legged stool, read Faith Undone: the emerging church – a new reformation or an end-time deception. For a complete analysis of the contemplative prayer movement and meditation’s role in a world-wide deception, read A Time of Departing.

For further understanding and research:

Lighthouse Trails’ Response to Rick Warren’s Letter

Ken Blanchard and the Hoffman Quadrinity Process

The Emerging Global Church by Berit Kjos

Rick Warren on Syria: ‘A moderate country’ by Joseph Farah

Rick Warren’s distortions of reality by Joseph Farah

Keeping an eye on the Rethink Conference

Why We Should Be Very Concerned About Leonard Sweet and Rick Warren … and Their Plans for the Future

This article or excerpt was posted on December 14, 2007@ 1:24 pm .

Category: * Global Peace

Dear brothers and sisters in the Lord just a short comment here.

The use of the word problematic is being tossed around a lot in Christianity today often lets look at the actual meaning of the word.

From Wikitionary-



  1. posing a problem; difficult to overcome or solve
  2. debatable; open to doubt
  3. unresolved or dubious
  4. doubtful or uncertain in its outcome

People that know me know Im pretty much a black and white person because I base what I believe in the roots of scripture. In the world of apologetics and discernment ministries of the Body of Christ (or those confessing to be part of the Body of Christ) the word problematic is tossed around more often than not.

If you have the Holy Spirit leading you into all truth things should be pretty clear to you. We know these are times of great falling away and deception so you need to stay rooted with your feet deeply grounded and rooted in Gods Word.

That is the only way you will be able to avoid the deception that is here there is even deeper deception to come.

So do I find the use of the word problematic to be problematic because its being tossed around by some apologist’s today?

No because satan said in the garden in Gen 3: 1 “Did God really say…

And 2 Timothy 4:3 states ”

2 Timothy 4:3-4 (New King James Version)(NKJV)

3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.”

So we should not be surprised that the use of the word problematic is used often even with some alleged apologist’s to lessen the danger or to raise that little bit of doubt in your mind about factual information.



This is a older article but relevent to the topic we have been talking about-Tim

News Flash: New Age sympathizer Ken Blanchard Returning to Saddleback Today

Source: Lighthouse Trails

Rick Warren has announced both in an interview on Fox News and in an email (see below) to his congregants that New Age sympathizer Ken Blanchard is returning to Saddleback to speak to the congregation this weekend. Below is a copy of the email Warren sent out on Friday October 26th.

Subject: This Weekend At Saddleback!
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 18:18:22 -0700
From: Pastor Rick WarrenDear Saddleback Family,
Below is information about this weekend that I encourage you to forward on to the people you work with. I urge you to attend either the Saturday evening or Sunday evening services. See you!
Pastor Rick

Ken Blanchard at Saddleback ... againSpecial Guest
Ken Blanchard saw it all go up in smoke this week. The bestselling business author of “The One Minute Manager” and two dozen other international business and leadership bestsellers watched from a television as his beloved Rancho Bernardo home burned to the ground. What is God’s purpose now for those who lost everything this week? How can you look up when your burned out?

Books Written By Ken Blanchard

* Ken Blanchard sharing his story: “What matters most?”
* Rick Warren speaking on “How to Look Up When You’re Burned Out”
BRING YOUR BOSS AND COWORKERS TO HEAR AMERICA’S PREMIER LEADERSHIP TRAINER in a way they’ve never heard at corporate seminars.
Service Times
Saturday: 4:30, 6:30 p.m.
Sunday: 9:00, 11:15 a.m. & 4:30, 6:30 p.m.
Direction to Saddleback Church

For those who may not understand the significance of this bold move by Rick Warren to invite Ken Blanchard back to Saddleback (and to announce it on Fox News), the following information will be vital to read. This is a chronological list of events that have taken place with regard to Rick Warren, Ken Blanchard, and Lighthouse Trails reporting.In Summary: Rick Warren announced in 2003 that Ken Blanchard would be working together with him on implementing the peace plan and training leaders around the world. However, when it came out that Blanchard had been promoting eastern meditation, Buddhism, and the New Age for over 20 years, Warren denied that Blanchard would be working on the peace plan. Warren contacted Lighthouse Trails regarding this. Because thousands of Christian churches are still following the Purpose Driven program, thinking that they are following a biblical plan, when in fact they are walking toward a dangerous, ecumenical cliff and a false belief that there will be global peace and the kingdom of God here on earth before Christ returns (read Faith Undone), we are reposting this information. Blanchard, who has been a professing Christian since the 80s, has consistently promoted the New Age, and to this day is still endorsing New Age type books and is still on the advisory board of the Hoffman Institute, where New Age practices and beliefs permeate. While Warren denied that Blanchard would be working with him on the peace plan, documentation below shows otherwise including a video of Rick Warren stating such and also a transcript of a conversation at a Lead Like Jesus conference in Alabama between Warren and Blanchard.

Ken Blanchard is back at Saddleback today (October 28th), and while Rick Warren is using the terrible fires in S. California as a reason to bring Blanchard back, there is a lot more to consider than houses being lost. While we sympathize with Blanchard and the many others who have lost their homes to the fires, the spiritual lives of countless people throughout the world could be affected too. For those who may not understand why Rick Warren would bring Blanchard in again, there is an obvious and documented explanation – he resonates with the same spirituality as Blanchard, as is carefully shown in A Time of Departing and Faith Undone.

Note: Rick Warren has sat on Blanchard’s national advisory board for many years, along with New Age proponents Mark Victor Hansen (Chicken Soup for the Soul) and Laurie Beth Jones. When Blanchard’s website was revamped, the list of board members was removed. Attempts were made to receive a copy of the current board member list, but Lead Like Jesus would not release it. If you would like to know who is currently on the board at Lead Like Jesus, click here for contact information.

A Chronological List of Events:

Fall 2003, Lead Like Jesus, Birmingham, Alabama: Transcript between Warren and Blanchard

November 2003: Rick Warren Announces Peace Plan (audio, loads slowly)

April 2005 – Lighthouse Trails releases press release exposing Rick Warren’s plans to include Ken Blanchard in his global P.E.A.C.E. Plan – Press Release:Rick Warren Teams Up With New-Age Guru Ken Blanchard!

May 23, 2005Rick Warren speaks at the Pew Forum on Religion, says anyone, even Muslims can be used to implement his peace plan.

May 31, 2005 – Rick Warren writes to Lighthouse Trails – makes his letter to LT public: Warren’s email

June 2005Our Response and Analysis (Warren’s letter filled with misleading and untrue statements)

Excerpt from June 2006 Special Report by LT: [In 2005], we issued a press release that showed the connection between Rick Warren and Ken Blanchard. In Warren’s own words, he acknowledged that Blanchard, a New Age sympathizer, had “signed on” to help implement Warren’s global P.E.A.C.E. plan. Warren stated this at a Saddleback service as well as at the 2003 Lead Like Jesus conference in Alabama. However, a month after we issued the press release, Lighthouse Trails received an email from Rick Warren. The email was sent in the middle of the night, and by the following morning, Warren had given permission to a colleague to post his email online. We contacted Saddleback and confirmed this. Needless to say, countless people found out about this email. However, what most who read his email did not realize was that the majority of the statements in his email were not true. We posted a public response but knew that most people would either only read Warren’s email to us or refuse to believe that America’s pastor was lying and we were speaking the truth.

Lighthouse Trails learned of Rick Warren’s connection to Ken Blanchard through a book called A Life With Purpose, written by Hollywood biographer, George Mair. Ray Yungen discusses this in his book, A Time of Departing:

In the spring of 2005, someone handed me a book called A Life with Purpose by George Mair. The book is written as a positive account of Rick Warren’s life. In fact, the subtitle on the front cover reads: America’s Most Inspiring Pastor. It is clear that the author had a great admiration for Warren. While Mair wrote the book, he spent many Sunday mornings at Saddleback church services, listening to Rick Warren and donating financially. However, after Rick Warren found out about the book, he publicly criticized it. In addition, Saddleback church sent out emails to an undisclosed number of people, discrediting Mair’s book.

I personally believe Warren’s effort to debunk the book was an attempt to conceal some of its observations. What George Mair didn’t realize was that in his candid account of Warren, and in his efforts to offer this testament of praise, some things were revealed about the pastor that might have gone undetected by the average person. For instance, Mair explains how New Age prophet Norman Vincent Peale was at the foundation of the church-growth movement and furthermore “many of Peale’s uplifting affirmations originated with an ‘obscure teacher of occult science’ named Florence Scovel Shinn.” Referring to many of the methods that Peale taught and his “unification of psychology and religion,” Mair says, “Saddleback distinctly bears the stamp of Reverend Norman Vincent Peale.”

In November of 2003, Rick Warren announced to his Saddleback congregation his global P.E.A.C.E. Plan. In the same sermon, Warren introduced the congregation to Ken Blanchard, playing a video clip of Blanchard’s visit to Saddleback a few days earlier. Warren informed his large congregation that Blanchard had: “… signed on to help with the P.E.A.C.E. Plan, and he’s going to be helping train us in leadership and in how to train others to be leaders all around the world.”

In light of the fact that Ken Blanchard has promoted Buddhism and Eastern style meditation for over 20 years, it became very alarming to know that Rick Warren was using Blanchard to train leaders around the world.

The weeks following Rick Warren’s email to us, we received phone calls and emails from different men from Saddleback, one of them telling us to stop “lobbing dead cats [and “grenades”] over the wall.” It was confirmed also that an email was sent out from Saddleback to an unknown number of people, discussing the Blanchard issue. That email stated that Lighthouse Trails had lied and they should not be listened to.

And then in December of 2005 a very strange thing happened – a woman sent us an email she had received from Rick Warren’s personal email address, which stated:

The website you refer to [Lighthouse Trails] below is well-known for publishing lies, which can easily be proven false…. The Bible says “Satan is the father of lies”, so those who intentionally spread them are doing Satan’s work for him. That is evil. We suggest you avoid listening to evil people who have a habit of lying about ministers of the Gospel. Study the Scriptures every day and flee from those who make their reputation by lying.

We contacted Saddleback about the email, and we received the following reply, suggesting that the email had been written by a computer hacker: “We are sorry that this public mailbox has been shut down due to vandalism and stolen identity. Federal enforcement officers are tracking down the source in either Africa or the Pacific Northwest.” At first, we thought this was a joke because we (who live in the Pacific Northwest) had recently issued a press release about an evangelist in Africa who had been opposing Purpose Driven. Hearing that Federal officers had narrowed down an investigation to either our location or the evangelist’s location seemed preposterous. We contacted Saddleback by phone requesting the names of these Federal agents because of the threatening nature of the “anonymous” email. A few days later a Saddleback staff member called and told us that Federal agents were doing an investigation on their web server being broken into and that Saddleback suspected Lighthouse Trails. We again asked for the names of the Federal agents as well as the Saddleback communications director that was handling the case. However, we were told they would not give us any names. We have not heard anything from Saddleback since.

We testify of these things, not to distract you from the issues at hand (of exposing contemplative and emerging spirituality within the church), but rather to show that Rick Warren, as well as other leaders, will go to great lengths to preserve their status and to complete their tasks, even to the point of lying, threatening, discrediting and deceiving. While we have postponed releasing this information for several months, because of Rick Warren’s continuous brazen remarks against the body of Christ and because Purpose Driven is an avenue through which the New Age is entering the church, we believe it is of utmost importance to relay this documentation to believers who are working so diligently to defend the gospel message of Jesus Christ in a time when a great falling away appears to be at hand.

February 2007: Ken Blanchard to Co-Author Book with Mystical Meditation Proponents

October 28th, 2007: Blanchard Returns to Saddleback

Further Research:

Ken Blanchard’s Endorsements of New Age/Buddhist Promoting Books

Other Transcripts, Audios and Videos of Rick Warren

Connections Between Rick Warren and Ken Blanchard

Ken Blanchard and Lead Like Jesus

Other Documentation

Research Database on Blanchard by Christian Research Service

Pertinent Quotes by Rick Warren and Ken Blanchard:

“You’ve heard me say many times that the greatest thing you can do with your life is tell somebody about Jesus … if you help somebody secure their eternal destiny, that they spend the rest of their life in Heaven not Hell …your life counts, your life matters because nothing matters more than helping get a person and their eternal destiny settled. They will be forever eternally grateful….And I’ve always said that that was the greatest thing you can do with your life. I was wrong. There is one thing you can do greater than share Jesus Christ with somebody, and it is help start a church.” —Sermon from 11/2003 when Rick Warren Announced His Global Peace Plan to Saddleback. Hear entire sermon – This portion starts around the 14 minute mark.)

“We come into this Peace Plan with great humility … We will be like a giant mushroom expanding and exploding around the world. Whatever it takes, it will be a holy moment.”—Rick Warren, Christian Examiner, May 2005 (1)

“I look for inspirational messages from a variety of sources besides Jesus. Our folks get to hear words of wisdom from great prophets and spiritual leaders like Buddha, Mohammed … Yogananda and the Dalai Lama.”-Ken Blanchard, foreword What Would Buddha Do at Work? (2001)

“Buddha points to the path and invites us to begin our journey to enlightenment. I … invite you to begin your journey to enlightened work.” -Ken Blanchard, foreword What Would Buddha Do at Work?

“For the stability of a nation, you must have strong healthy government, strong healthy businesses, and strong healthy churches…. A three-legged stool will have stability. So I’m going from country to country teaching business its role, teaching church its role, and teaching government leaders their role-you’ve got to work together! We cannot solve the problem in your country or in the world if we won’t work together.” Rick Warren in the Philippines in July 2006

“Who’s the man of peace in any village – or it might be a woman of peace – who has the most respect, they’re open and they’re influential? They don’t have to be a Christian. In fact, they could be a Muslim, but they’re open and they’re influential and you work with them to attack the five giants. And that’s going to bring the second Reformation.”—Rick Warren, May 2005, Pew Forum on Religion

“Personal computers have brand names. But inside every pc is an Intel chip and an operating system. Windows…. The Purpose Driven paradigm is the Intel chip for the 21st-century church and the Windows system of the 21st-century church.” Rick Warren, Christianity Today, Oct. 2005

“[W]e are possibly on the verge of a new reformation in Christianity and another Great Awakening in our nation … The signs are everywhere, including the popularity of this book.” Rick Warren, Baptist Press, Sept. 2004

“I really do feel that these people are brothers and sisters in God’s family. I am looking to build bridges with the Orthodox Church, looking to build bridges with the Catholic Church, with the Anglican church.” Rick Warren at Anglican conference, 11/05

* * * * *

“And they said, ‘Come, let us build ourselves a city, and a tower whose top is in the heavens; let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth.’ But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built. And the LORD said, ‘Indeed the people are one and they all have one language, and this is what they begin to do; now nothing that they propose to do will be withheld from them.'” Genesis 11: 4-6

“Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons.” I Timothy 4:1

This article or excerpt was posted on October 28, 2007@ 2:27 pm .

Category: * Global Peace

Source: Lighthouse Trails

Parmahansa YoganandaThe 2007 edition of Little Wave and Old Swell (released by Beyond Words Publishing) is packaged as a children’s picture book, one that moms and dads will sit and read to their young ones at bedtime. The story is woven within the pages of colorful abstract paintings of the ocean and the sky. It begins with a conversation between Little Wave and Old Swell:

“What is it, Old Swell?” Little Wave asked his teacher. Little Wave was gazing out at the place where the sky and sea meet. He had seen other things rising out there–clouds and ships and whales. But never had he seen anything like the long, dark line that lay across the horizon. Old Swell knew that Little Wave had never seen land and that he would not understand. So he answered like the sage he was, “That,” said Old Swell, “is Destiny.”

And so goes the story of the journey of Little Wave and his dialogue with Old Swell.

At first, the story could seem harmless enough, but the cover inscription will cause discerning Christians to grab another bedtime tale. It reads: “Inspired by Hindu swamiParamahansa Yogananada” The book is written by New Age proponent Jim Ballard, so it would naturally make sense that he would be inspired by the Hindu guru (a whole page and a painting of the guru is devoted to him in the back of the book). What will throw many off, and no doubt cause some Christians to question their concerns about the book, is another inscription on the front cover. This one reads: “Foreword by Ken Blanchard

Blanchard, known by most for being a business leadership figure and for his One Minute Manager books, professes to have become a Christian in the mid 80s (see his biography, We are the Beloved). However, for over twenty-five years, he has been writing the forewords and endorsements to books that teach and/or promote Buddhist and eastern-style meditation. His foreword to the book What Would Buddha do at Work? came out in 2001.

Some may say, so what if Blanchard endorses these books – what does it really matter? If Blanchard was not a professing Christian and very well accepted by many evangelical Christians (he recently spoke again at Saddleback), his endorsing of eastern religious writers and teachers might not be so serious. But when a man or woman represents Christianity, the Bible is clear that he or she is responsible (especially one who is in leadership) for their words and actions. Readers grabbing a hold of Little Wave and Old Swell may find Blanchard’s outstanding endorsement of the book license to read it and embrace the spirituality behind it.

We have titled the name of this article “A Course in Miracles for Children” because the message in both books is essentially the same – and that is, that all is God, and therefore man is God, and he can come to this realization through mystical meditation.

Ballard is no stranger to New Age philosophy. In his book, Mind Like Water (also endorsed by Blanchard), Ballard says:

I signed up for the yoga meditation lessons … founded by Paramahansa Yogananda….I had evidently reached a level of consciousness beyond the usual … I continue to consider meditation far and away the most important thing I do. (p. 77,78)

In this book, Ballard teaches breath prayer, visualization, mantra meditation, and a number of other practices to enter the altered state of consciousness.

In Little Wave and Old Swell, Old Swell (representing the higher consciousness) tries to teach Little Wave “deep listening.”: “As he pondered this mystery, Little Wave felt a strange, deep contentment. Perhaps this was what Old Swell meant by being still.” Old Swell responds to Little Wave’s questions, “You thought that you were separate, but no. You can never be apart from your Source. Know that you and I and all of our brother and sister waves are One with the Great Deep. We have always been One. We shall always be One.” Later in the book, after a period of storm, Little Wave asks his teacher “teach me about Don’t hurry; don’t stop”:

He didn’t know how, but he was certain it had something to do with Deep Listening … As he concentrated, he began to feel great peace. Then came a trickling of Joy … He listened. The gentle hum grew louder … Finally he was hearing the Sound. Little Wave listened more carefully. He had never heard a sound like this before. And yet somehow he felt he had always heard it, there behind every other sound. Ommm-m-m-m… Ommm-m-m-m-m…”

Here we find the classic Hindu mantra om as the catalyst for Little Wave’s spiritual transformation.

As Little Wave listened, he realized the Sound was coming from inside him, all around him, everywhere. It was the Voice of Everything.

The book finishes with this prayer: “Help me to feel my connection with the vast Ocean of Life, the Oneness within all things.” Keep in mind that this is the classic Hindu concept of God–God is in all, and all is God. And this is especially evident by the fact that this story was inspired by a famous Hindu guru. This is what one will get from any and every Hindu spiritual teacher.

Like Jim Ballard, Ken Blanchard has looked to Paramahansa Yogananda for guidance. In the foreword to What Would Buddha do at Work, Blanchard states:

I look for inspirational messages from a variety of sources besides Jesus. Our folks get to hear words of wisdom from great prophets and spiritual leaders like Buddha, Mohammed … Yogananda and the Dalai Lama.

Finding Yogananda a “great” spiritual leader would explain why Blanchard wrote the foreword to Little Wave and Old Swell. In the foreword, Blanchard says “Yogananda loved Jesus, and Jesus would have loved Yogananda.” He adds: “Little Wave and Old Swell is a book for the innocent seeker in each of us … It’s a tale to tell children. And it can be a gift of hope to someone in bereavement … Enjoy this story. Read it many times. Let it speak to your heart.”

It is important to point out that this is not just a book for adults but for young people and children as well. Blanchard recognizes the spiritual component within its pages and endorses this component. This is what Ken Blanchard really believes. In addition, the fact that Blanchard says that Jesus would like Paramahansa Yogananda indicates he has accepted the classic New Age view that Jesus is just another New Age guru wherein they all honor each other. In reality, Jesus would have told Yogananda he must be born again, not achieve higher consciousness. If there is one thing that Christian Scripture teaches, it is that all is not one, and that God is a separate entity from man. In Hinduism, God is not a being, but Being itself.

The message in A Course in Miracles, as has been articulated by former New Ager Warren Smith in his book Reinventing Jesus Christ, is that all is One. Unfortunately, Little Wave and Old Swell carries the same message. And when a Christian figure as popular as Ken Blanchard tells readers, including children, to “let it speak to your heart,” this is an indescribable tragedy within our Christian culture, not just that Blanchard said it but that Christian leaders seem unaware of its implications.

Note: For more information on the spirituality of Jim Ballard and Ken Blanchard, and the ties between Blanchard and Rick Warren, please read Chapter 5 and Chapter 10 Updates of Warren Smith’s book, Reinventing Jesus Christ.

Quotes from the “Jesus” of A Course in Miracles

There is no separation of God and His creation.

God is All in all in a very literal sense. All being is in Him Who is all Being. You are therefore in Him since your being is His.

When God created you He made you part of Him.

Everyone God created is part of you and shares His Glory with you.

The mind can make the belief in separation very real and very fearful, and this belief is the “devil.”
(These quotes courtesy chapter 1 of Reinventing Jesus Christ)

Related Information:

Ken Blanchard Joins the Secret Team

Ken Blanchard and the Hoffman Quadrinity Process

Ken Blanchard Returns to Saddleback
This article or excerpt was posted on March 31, 2008@ 12:15 am .

Category: * The New Age Movement

Very good article that I found on another blog by John Baker and thought it would be good for those who read this blog. People in Christianity are really starting to wake up from their purpose driven slumber many have been in because of the work of many out in the blog world-Tim

This past week I had an email exchange with Richard Abanes a journalist, who on his website acts as an apologist for Rick Warren. Or should I say a cleanup man, one who attempts to, as Mr. Abanes puts it  to” clarify” the controversial statements Rick Warren makes in public.Mr. Abanes thinks everyone just misunderstands Rick Warren, and that Mr. Warren actually takes great pains to clarify his statements to his Saddleback faithful, but unfortunately not to the wider public.What generated the email exchange was an article Mr. Abanes wrote on his web site called: Rick Warren and Fundamentalists where Mr. Abanes takes apart those he calls the “Heresy Hunters” for “jumping to incorrect conclusions” about Rick Warren.Mr. Abanes article is nothing more than rationalization and word play. He attempts to take very clear declarative derogatory statements in regards to Fundamentalists that Rick Warren makes to the wider secular main stream media and attempts to say that Rick Warren is not deriding all Fundamentalists but only a select few that Mr. Abanes says are those:“who use their religion/beliefs to attack, hate, be intolerant of others, remain closed-minded to unfamiliar ideas, and stay cold-hearted to those who are not like them. Their goal is the manipulation of power, authoritarian influence, maintaining control over others, political/spiritual oppression, and domination by force, intimidation, or rules of dos and don’ts.”

Many loaded words in that quotation, and ones that are used quite a bit these days to wrongly generalize and actually marginalize those who truly hold to the belief that Jesus is the only way by which a man must be saved, and those who truly believe that the Bible is the final and only inerrant inspired Word of God which directs man how he must be saved and how he should live.

Mr. Abanes attempts to say that the above is one of two types of Christian Fundamentalist, the other being those who are:

“the technical, religious kind, which would actually include Warren, myself, most evangelical churches, certainly the entire Southern Baptist Convention, Calvary Chapel churches, and anyone else who holds to the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith”.

But what Mr. Abanes refuses to admit is that Rick Warren has every opportunity when making derogatory statements about Fundamentalists in public to clarify what he means. But he makes no attempt to. Mr. Abanes seems to think that the wider general public can know without that clarification what group Mr. Warren is referring to. This is nothing more than a ludicrous assumption on Mr. Abanes part. What Mr. Warren is actually doing is playing to and reinforcing the apostate and secular world’s view of those who hold to Biblical Fundamentalism, full stop!

Five ponts of Fundamentalsim:

1. The inspiration and inerrancy of Scripture
2. The deity of Jesus Christ
3. The virgin birth of Christ
4. The substitutionary, atoning work of Christ on the cross
5. The physical resurrection and the personal bodily return of Christ to the earth.

Mr. Warren on the Colbert Report said: A Fundamentalist is one who has stopped listening” He did not say a certain type of fundamentalist. He said “A Fundamentalist” Now I am not an English composition teacher, but I do know that when someone makes a statement such as Rick Warren made he is making a general all inclusive statement about a group not a particular subset which he conveniently does not mention.

Here is the deeply troubling aspect of both Mr. Abanes rationalization and Rick Warren’s “fruit” so to speak. It has become common today for those who like Rick Warren who claim to be Christian but who are actually working towards a universal all inclusive religion to say and even publish that they hold to Biblical Fundamentalism. But this is a thin veneer that they utilize to allow them to fly under the radar so to speak in order not to make explicit what they wish to remain cloaked.

The New Age movement died out in the late eighties and early nineties simply because overt New Age terminology was used, no attempt was made to hide the fact that it was diametrically opposed to Christianity. But as we know Satan is shrewd and ever attempting to thwart God’s plans so the New Age Movement made a comeback in the new Millennium repackaged with Christian Terminology.  Now what you see are those who claim to hold to Biblical Fundamentalism but who continually work to undermine Biblical Fundamentalism at every chance in the wider world. But knowing that they do have as their base thousands of misled Christians who do hear and see what is printed and spoken in the mainstream media, they offer them “clarifications” so that they can continue to dismantle Biblical Christianity, leaving their congregations in their “blind slumber”.

To give you an example of the reasoning that men like Mr. Abanes and Mr. Warren use, look at these excerpts from a Book by Mr. Abanes called: “Inside Today’s Mormonism”:


Notice this Sentence from the excerpt: “Evangelicals and Mormons can no longer view each other as Foes”

Mr. Abanes claims his book is meant to “inform” Evangelicals on what Mormons actually believe. But it is in fact nothing more than an attempt to break down the walls that divide Satanic Mormonism from Christianity, bridge the gap and join them together. Mr. Abanes is part of the post-modern group that believe if you “dialogue” with people in such false satanic based religions long enough that you can somehow bridge your differences and that the end result will be a new truth based on the “best” of both religions, a “New Understanding” Have you heard that before? I think Oprah Winfry is peddling that poisonous koolade now as well!

In their eyes Biblical Evangelism needs to be “tweaked”. Instead of preaching the unvarnished pure word of God. These men somehow think that they need to “perfect” God’s Word, to “clarify” it. And when it is “clarified” through dialogue with false religions then we will all find out that we are all (ALL RELIGIONS) seeking after the same “god”.

Sadly this is nothing more than Hegelian Dialectic Synthesis.  Where two opposing ideologies do not attempt to completely refute each others ideologies but come to a synthesis, or joining of their ideologies the result of which is a new “third way” which combines elements of both ideologies. It is key to understand that this is incompatible with Biblical Christianity. Biblical Christianity is based on antithesis. The ideology that there is a clear right and there is a clear wrong and there can never be a synthesis of the two to form a valid third way.

Unfortunately what allows men such as Mr. Abanes and Mr. Warren to get away with their “synthesis” is that the historical and Biblical ignorance of the average American Christian is at an all time low. Additionally those who lead Christian Congregations are not equipped; do not care to be equipped to teach their congregations via expository preaching of the Bible or to teach them the historical roots of the current pervasive ideology of Synthesis.

What irritates me about men such as Mr. Abanes is that he dearly wishes that those whom he calls “Heresy Hunters” would just shut up and be dumbed down by drinking the same poisonous koolade he has drunk! What he seems to forget is that his kind who have chosen to dumb themselves down were once the exception and not the rule. It is unfortunate that he cannot see that being “dumbed down” of which he is part is unfortunately now the rule instead of the exception. And it is all because him and others have chosen to “engage” and become part of the world around them, instead of “Being in the World, But not of it”!

Stand Fast!

John Baker





By Paul Proctor

January 2, 2008

The Lord sent me on a difficult journey several years ago. It has been a long, painful and frustrating excursion. But it has also been quite rewarding in that I have learned so much along the way.

He called me out of The People’s Church in August of 2000 for reasons I have already chronicled in a published piece by the same name. It wasn’t a mere critique of a church gone bad from a disgruntled ex-member with an axe to grind, but rather the beginning of a calling of sorts to expose what I discovered to be a growing movement and trend in church life that in reality robs people of their faith in Jesus Christ.

In my ten or so years as an untrained writer and columnist with an undeserved high school diploma and a very basic knowledge of the scriptures that came largely through personal study and prayer, I started writing commentary for the internet barely knowing even how to punctuate a sentence, much less how to structure one properly. It was more or less on-the-job-training; so frankly, I learned as I wrote what I witnessed. And not having the luxury of editors most of that time, it meant that any embarrassing errors I made involving grammar, punctuation or spelling were promptly published for all the world to see – and in many cases, still are.

In retrospect, I suppose that helped keep my ego in check, at least most of the time, especially when the praise and support of other Christians began coming in – not unlike the Apostle Paul’s thorn in the flesh that tormented him throughout his ministry. By the same token, I guess those words of encouragement helped keep my discouragement, embarrassment and humiliation from overwhelming me when all the criticism and rejection followed.

I had been a musician all of my adult life and until the mid-nineties, had no inkling or desire to write about anything that didn’t involve music – much less controversial matters of church and faith. To this day I’m amazed that anyone is interested in anything I have to say – and moreover, that the Lord would compel a fool like me to write it down.

But I do nonetheless, for whatever it’s worth.

After leaving The People’s Church, I ended up at a smaller more traditional Southern Baptist fellowship where the pastor assured me numerous times over the four years I was there that he would not bring that church growth movement stuff I had agonized through at my previous church into his church, only to end up, much to my dismay, hearing him quote Rick Warren and his Purpose Driven Life principles time and again from the pulpit – eventually going so far as to offer a class on it to those who were interested in attending – that is, until I reminded him of his promise to me. It was as if every time I tried to settle in and serve the Lord in some capacity there, either as a teacher, a committee member or as a trustee, the CGM would reappear in one form or another and distract me into a confrontation and response in order to restrain its influence. As I would soon learn, many others who were reading my articles were also enduring the same kinds of struggles at their churches.

Whenever I questioned my pastor about his PDL proclivities, the justification was that, even though he didn’t actively promote The Purpose Driven Life and Church per se, there were some practical things in Warren’s books he thought would help our congregation. I suspect he was also under at least some peer-pressure, intentional or not, from local promoters and sellers of PDL products and materials which may have included fellow pastors and representatives from LifeWay Christian Resources here in Nashville, where such things have been for sale for years – a company that once employed him as an editor – not to mention the fact that he was shepherding a handful of misguided church members who were absolutely taken by Warren’s unbiblical notions and ideas.

Still I remained, hoping to persuade him otherwise.

What finally sent me packing and back on my journey in search of a faithful church (not to be confused with a perfect church) was a Sunday morning message given in two services on November 21st, 2004, where he told of being impressed by a missionary and speaker he heard a few days earlier named Rick Leatherwood, who shrewdly used certain Proverbs from the Old Testament as a means of evangelizing Muslims by referring to the God of the Bible as “Allah,” in hopes of winning them to Christ.

After the service was over, I obtained a CD copy of my pastor’s sermon, to make sure I had actually heard him correctly, so as not to jump to conclusions and falsely accuse him of something he didn’t actually say.

Citing the Apostle Paul as an example, this is an excerpt of what he preached that morning:

Paul had learned to become all things to all men. Rick Leatherwood has done that too. He does so many interesting things. And, he was trying to figure out, “How do I connect with these Muslims? They believe in the same God, sort of, that I do. They believe in the same God Abraham believed in. They believe in that God. Well, what can I do to connect with them? I can’t just walk in and start talking about Jesus. They believe that Jesus was a real man but they don’t believe He really died. So, I just can’t walk in and start telling the good news about Jesus.”

So, he came up with the idea, he said, “They believe in God; why not tell them about God? And so the one way I can do that is to give them a copy of the book of Proverbs from our Old Testament.” It tells all this wisdom about God, from God and how to know God. And so, what he did; he printed up these little booklets – and he’s done it – he’s got them printed in various Arabic languages. And he’ll go up, and when he gets to know somebody, he said, “I’d like to give you a gift. I’d like to give you this copy of the wisdom of God.” Because they believe in God, he can say, “I’m talking about the same God.”

After listening to the CD at home I called my pastor and politely told him: “Jesus is not the Son of Allah.” He responded to my concerns by saying, that wasn’t what he meant, followed by an apology for “offending me.”

You see, he cleverly turned an Absolute Truth issue into a Relationship issue and quickly apologized for having offended me rather than admitting that he had in fact contradicted the Word of God.


After a short but heated discussion, I closed the conversation stating, if I were he, I’d revisit the issue from the pulpit and clear up any confusion his remarks may have caused.

When two or three Sundays passed without any mention of his mistake, my wife and I discontinued our participation in worship there, but did continue in Sunday School with friends for a time, visiting another nearby church for worship, waiting on the Lord’s leading elsewhere or our pastor’s public confession and repentance – whichever came first.

Almost three months later, on February 6th of 2005, my pastor made the following remarks in passing during his sermon that morning:

“Muslims claim to know God; but the god that they say they know, when you really study what they say; we did a study, some of you may remember, on Muslims and Muslim religion a few months back. When you really study what they believe, you see that the god they’re worshipping is not the God you and I worship. It’s a different God. It’s not the God that Jesus revealed to us.”

So, apparently this was, to his way of thinking, an acceptable substitute for confession and repentance; to ever-so-briefly re-visit the issue months later as if no real error had actually been committed – as if his unofficial follow-up sermon communicated what he really believed all along about God and Allah. I was left to ask myself: How could such a man ever call on sinners to confess and repent when he was so stubbornly unwilling to do so himself?

We never looked back.

And that brings me to the point of this article about my ongoing journey and the question I offered as its title:

Is your church suffering from R & R?

Both my previous churches obviously were; and amazingly, so have every one of the Southern Baptist churches my wife and I visited across three counties here in Middle Tennessee over the last three years.

Blame whomever and whatever you will; but somewhere along the way, they all to varying degrees, quit believing God – they lost their faith – their conviction – their focus and their Divine call to hear, believe, proclaim and obey the Word of God at all costs, whatever may come – and made the call to repentance and faith in Christ at best, secondary to the pragmatic pursuit of Results and Relationships – refashioning their religion into something more marketable – more practical – more horizontal and humanistic, so as to please prospects and participants into jumping onboard, that they might artificially grow their congregations into something impressive instead of something faithful – boasting of “fruit” while yielding a great harvest of weeds.

In spite of all this, the numbers steadily drop and revival continues to evade the Southern Baptist Convention whose members stare at their baptisteries year after year, longing for more Results – and then at each other, longing for more Relationships – this, while ignoring the Provider of both Who patiently waits for their confession, repentance and obedience, that He might bless.

Eve took the forbidden fruit because she wanted Results. Adam took it to protect and sustain his Relationship with Eve. Today, the church of the 21st century shamelessly continues to pursue both at God’s expense in a desperate and disobedient attempt to satisfy “the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life.” (1st John 2:16)

May God have mercy on us all in 2008.

© 2008 Paul Proctor – All Rights Reserved

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Paul Proctor, a rural resident of the Volunteer state and seasoned veteran of the country music industry, retired from showbiz in the late 1990’s to dedicate himself to addressing important social issues from a distinctly biblical perspective. As a freelance writer and regular columnist for, he extols the wisdom and truths of scripture through commentary and insight on cultural trends and current events. His articles appear regularly on a variety of news and opinion sites across the internet and in print

A Shocking “Confession” from Willow Creek Community Church
By Bob Burney
Tuesday, October 30, 2007
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If you are older than 40 the name Benjamin Spock is more than familiar. It was Spock that told an entire generation of parents to take it easy, don’t discipline your children and allow them to express themselves. Discipline, he told us, would warp a child’s fragile ego. Millions followed this guru of child development and he remained unchallenged among child rearing professionals. However, before his death Dr. Spock made an amazing discovery: he was wrong. In fact, he said:We have reared a generation of brats. Parents aren’t firm enough with their children for fear of losing their love or incurring their resentment. This is a cruel deprivation that we professionals have imposed on mothers and fathers. Of course, we did it with the best of intentions. We didn’t realize until it was too late how our know-it-all attitude was undermining the self assurance of parents.

A New Testament is placed on a pulpit as worshipers pray and sing at the evangelical Church of Jesus Christ is Love in a Buenos Aires suburb February 18, 2007. In Argentina and across Latin America, the Catholic Church is finding it hard to compete with churches like this one, and the dwindling Catholic flock will be high on the agenda when Pope Benedict meets bishops during a visit to Brazil in May. Catholics acknowledge that the future of their church lies in Latin America — home to half the world’s 1 billion Catholics. But what was once a virtual monopoly has been steadily challenged, not only in countries like Brazil and Guatemala, but also in more staid places like Argentina. Picture taken February 18, 2007. TO MATCH FEATURE ARGENTINA-CHURCH/ REUTERS/Enrique Marcarian (ARGENTINA)


Something just as momentous, in my opinion, just happened in the evangelical community. For most of a generation evangelicals have been romanced by the “seeker sensitive” movement spawned by Willow Creek Community Church in Chicago. The guru of this movement is Bill Hybels. He and others have been telling us for decades to throw out everything we have previously thought and been taught about church growth and replace it with a new paradigm, a new way to do ministry.

Perhaps inadvertently, with this “new wave” of ministry came a de-emphasis on taking personal responsibility for Bible study combined with an emphasis on felt-needs based “programs” and slick marketing.

The size of the crowd rather than the depth of the heart determined success. If the crowd was large then surely God was blessing the ministry. Churches were built by demographic studies, professional strategists, marketing research, meeting “felt needs” and sermons consistent with these techniques. We were told that preaching was out, relevance was in. Doctrine didn’t matter nearly as much as innovation. If it wasn’t “cutting edge” and consumer friendly it was doomed. The mention of sin, salvation and sanctification were taboo and replaced by Starbucks, strategy and sensitivity.

Thousands of pastors hung on every word that emanated from the lips of the church growth experts. Satellite seminars were packed with hungry church leaders learning the latest way to “do church.” The promise was clear: thousands of people and millions of dollars couldn’t be wrong. Forget what people need, give them what they want. How can you argue with the numbers? If you dared to challenge the “experts” you were immediately labeled as a “traditionalist,” a throwback to the 50s, a stubborn dinosaur unwilling to change with the times.

All that changed recently.

Willow Creek has released the results of a multi-year study on the effectiveness of their programs and philosophy of ministry. The study’s findings are in a new book titled Reveal: Where Are You?, co-authored by Cally Parkinson and Greg Hawkins, executive pastor of Willow Creek Community Church. Hybels himself called the findings “earth shaking,” “ground breaking” and “mind blowing.” And no wonder: it seems that the “experts” were wrong.

The report reveals that most of what they have been doing for these many years and what they have taught millions of others to do is not producing solid disciples of Jesus Christ. Numbers yes, but not disciples. It gets worse. Hybels laments:

Some of the stuff that we have put millions of dollars into thinking it would really help our people grow and develop spiritually, when the data actually came back it wasn’t helping people that much. Other things that we didn’t put that much money into and didn’t put much staff against is stuff our people are crying out for.

If you simply want a crowd, the “seeker sensitive” model produces results. If you want solid, sincere, mature followers of Christ, it’s a bust. In a shocking confession, Hybels states:

We made a mistake. What we should have done when people crossed the line of faith and become Christians, we should have started telling people and teaching people that they have to take responsibility to become ‘self feeders.’ We should have gotten people, taught people, how to read their bible between services, how to do the spiritual practices much more aggressively on their own.

Incredibly, the guru of church growth now tells us that people need to be reading their bibles and taking responsibility for their spiritual growth.

Just as Spock’s “mistake” was no minor error, so the error of the seeker sensitive movement is monumental in its scope. The foundation of thousands of American churches is now discovered to be mere sand. The one individual who has had perhaps the greatest influence on the American church in our generation has now admitted his philosophy of ministry, in large part, was a “mistake.” The extent of this error defies measurement.

Perhaps the most shocking thing of all in this revelation coming out of Willow Creek is in a summary statement by Greg Hawkins:

Our dream is that we fundamentally change the way we do church. That we take out a clean sheet of paper and we rethink all of our old assumptions. Replace it with new insights. Insights that are informed by research and rooted in Scripture. Our dream is really to discover what God is doing and how he’s asking us to transform this planet.

Isn’t that what we were told when this whole seeker-sensitive thing started? The church growth gurus again want to throw away their old assumptions and “take out a clean sheet of paper” and, presumably, come up with a new paradigm for ministry.

Should this be encouraging?

Please note that “rooted in Scripture” still follows “rethink,” “new insights” and “informed research.” Someone, it appears, still might not get it. Unless there is a return to simple biblical (and relevant) principles, a new faulty scheme will replace the existing one and another generation will follow along as the latest piper plays.

What we should find encouraging, at least, in this “confession” coming from the highest ranks of the Willow Creek Association is that they are coming to realize that their existing “model” does not help people grow into mature followers of Jesus Christ. Given the massive influence this organization has on the American church today, let us pray that God would be pleased to put structures in place at Willow Creek that foster not mere numeric growth, but growth in grace.

Bob Burney is Salem Communications’ award-winning host of Bob Burney Live, heard weekday afternoons on WRFD-AM 880 in Columbus, Ohio.

The Purpose Driven Trojan Horse-Your Fired-Getting Rid of Faithful Bereans Purpose Driven Style.

First of all I want to preface that I want you to read all the articles and links I post-search the scriptures to see if what is stated is true, ask the Holy Spirit to led you into all truth about everything posted here. If you find that it is not backed up in scripture-regect it totally. People would say that entertainment  is a gray area in the Bible. I say it is not. The Bible teaches us not to be of the world. It actually states that if you are a friend of the world you are a enemy of God. That goes for entertainment, television and bringing man made business practices into the church. As Rick Warren does duplicating the worldly efforts and business practices of Peter Drucker.
note that this is from Forbes magazine the Homepage For The Worlds Business Leaders

So what does it mean to be a faithful Berean? It simply means you read the Bible for yourself to see if what someone is saying is true.
I grew up in the Catholic church. I went to Catholic grade school and high school. I received a wonderful education but in all my years in school I was never encouraged to read the Bible for myself. Now I am not saying that the Catholic church believe only a elite few can really be lead into all truth and thats why they have a Magesterium.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church, 85 states that authentic interpretation of the Word of God is entrusted to the living Magisterium of the Church, namely the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter. Catholic theology places the authoritative interpretation of scripture in the hands of the corporate judgment of the Church rather than the private judgment of the individual.
The Bible however contradicts this belief in the verse i started the post with.

Well does Rick believe that we should have faithful Bereans in the church?
All I can say is that is Ricks man made purpose driven movement, in the five tasks Rick proclaims that Christ ordained for his church to accomplish. No where do I find in Ricks five purposes a statement encouraging believers to study the Bible for themselves to see if what Rick says is true.
Its just not there folks.

Ricks quote about Catholics
“And, you know, growing up as a Protestant boy, I knew nothing about Catholics, but I started watching ETWN, the Catholic channel, and I said, “Well, I’m not as far apart from these guys as I thought I was, you know? ”
Check this whole article out

So does Warren want you to read the Bible for yourself and how do they plan to eliminate you from your own church on purpose?
Lets see if bringing Bibles to church to see if the speaker is stating what is true is practiced at Ricks own church Saddleback.
Here is a exchange between a friend of mine who talked about his recent trip to Saddleback and  (unofficial spokesman for Rick Warren) Richard Abanes .
(Here is the exchange-
HILL’S #1: I learned if you take your Bible into the service you will be greeted immediately by an associate pastor, asking how your trip to California has been.
RESPONSE: Obviously, this is a sarcastic jab at Saddleback—and it’s not true. I do not get instantly greeted as an out-of-towner just because you have your Bible. My goodness, people. Clearly, Hill is making reference to the fact that few people bring their Bible’s with them to Saddleback. And yet we actually have a poster at Hill’s blog who wrote: “Pretty bad when you look like a tourist if you have a Bible.”I suppose it’s possible that someone very observant might have wondered if Scott Hill was a visitor because he had a Bible, but it’s not likely. Even if such a thing actually DID happen, exactly where does it say in scripture that in order to PROVE how holy you are, or PROVE how godly you are, or PROVE how much you know the Word of God, you must actually be toting around a glimmering Bible with you at church so everyone can see it? Sounds rather prideful to me and for some people might be an external sign of holiness. I saw this ALL THE TIME at Calvary Chapels—hey, man, if you had your Bible with you, you were part if the “IN” crowd, but no Bible got you dirty looks like “Oh, what’s wrong with him?” or “Hey, she has no Bible, she might be trouble.” Puh-lease.Here’s a thought—how about actually LIVING what’s inside the Bible and letting your faith be seen THAT way, rather than just making sure you’re carrying a Bible at church (James 2:18 ). When/where did the physical act of carrying a Bible to church become the mark of Christianity??

Anyway come to what ever conclusion you like. I don’t think Rick and his gang want you looking to Gods word to see if what they say is true.

Here are some tidbits from Chuck McAllister ”
“How to transition an established church ”
(my rant-Look at that title folks does that reek of arrogance and make ya mad. What if the established church was established on Gods Word?-not the Book of Rick. Chaos can only follow.)
anyway here are the quotes
Start a gradual worship style transition (This was number one on the list-not pray and seek God, but the focus is on changing the music-just insert the word entertainment here when PD people say music-refer to my article on Ricks low view of music. Changing good God honoring music into music that entertains unbelievers is going to upset folks who want to worship God in spirit and in truth).
next quote-
“Possibly, you will face challenges from staff, particularly those who were present when you arrived. You must deal with those swiftly and decisively, preferably putting those issues to rest before you start the transition process. It will mean dismissing staff if they do not “buy in” to the transition. ”
(To me this says the churchs transistion is no longer open to discussion and it doesnt matter if you think it stacks up with Gods word or not. And if you don’t buy in “your fired”.)
Next quote
“You must remember that the transition will not please everyone – that would be impossible. Do not abandon your vision to appease a person or even a group of persons who choose to leave. God will send other leaders to take their place. ”
(Notice the focus is on your vision. Self centered-not God centered. And if your vision doesnt jive with Gods word-yes you will be sent other leaders. Will they be sent from God? Not a chance. And with the focus on changing music being the most important thing here I can with authority say that this vision is not from God because it does not align with scripture-again when they say music invert the word entertainment which is focused on man’s pleasure not focused on pleasing God.)
Next quote
“However, the transitioning church cannot be seeker-driven, seeking to exalt the seeker above Jesus Christ. Only Jesus deserves the honor of our focus in worship and life. As He is exalted, He will draw men to Him. The spiritually minded members of your church will understand this.
( this may seem to dispute the point Im trying to make but I know from reading literally hundreds of pages on what these folks say against what they actually do constatly,contradict’s what they publically state- check this link for further explaination
next quote
“. It is essential that the church purpose reflect the five purposes of a New Testament church: Worship, Discipleship, Fellowship, Evangelism, and Ministry. ”
(Keep in mind this is what Rick Warren thinks are the five purposes of a New Testament church is. Within these five purposes stated in Rick Warrens book Purpose Driven church does it encourage you to read and seek God for yourself in the Bible.)
next quote
“One of the major problems in many transitioning churches is the monthly business meeting. As part of the structure change, it is important to move the church away from the need to vote on everything and to trust their leaders to make certain decisions. For those churches finding it difficult to implement an annual business meeting, one alternative is to transition to quarterly business meetings with the idea that you will later move to the annual business meeting.”
(Top down managment-your opinion and feedback is not important-what more needs to be said here-again refer to articles I have posted on the Shepherding Movement and Bob Mumfords gang of five)
Next quote
“The senior pastor must assume full responsibility to hire or fire staff.This alleviates the need for a personnel committee and helps the staff understand how the chain of supervision operates. The church does not vote on either the establishment of a staff position or who occupies that position. Each staff member is evaluated on the anniversary of their arrival on staff, and the pastor determines the raise they will receive for the next year. The staff raises are divided into two parts: a merit raise and a cost-of-living raise, with a total percentage cap that is written into the budget. ”
(This is not a biblical view because the church was run by elders -plural. Many churches I know have a exectutive or associate pastor who does the actual elimination of staff so the head or senior pastor does not have to look like a bad guy. Even though the word may have come and for sure it needs senior pastor apporoval.Many big companies are run like this-the New Testament church however was not run like this. People have decided that the ways of man are better than the ways God has taught in his word.)
Final quote-
“The senior pastor assumes responsibility for the overall vision and direction of the church.”
(Sounds like a pope to me)

The average pay for a worship leader these days is between 19 and 40 thousand per year. I know in our church this includes a generous vacation with pay. This pay is also for churches between 700-5000.
Our church alone pays out over a million in salaries to staff.
In the big entertainment centers like Lakewood, Willow Creek and Saddleback Im sure its more.
Its big business with church these days and many families are dependent on the church because they work for the church.
Do you think someone will make waves if their salary is online?
So with the Church Growth Movement yes your numbers will increase( because of the entertainment and show you provide) but so will the bondage of not checking the scriptures to see if what is being spoken aligns with the word of God.

Here is the article I quoted from in its entirety. I would encourage you to read the whole thing(make sure I didnt take anything out of context). And then balance that with whats actually being done in Purpose Driven and Entertainment centers they call church these days.
You need to decide for yourselves what this movement really is. I have already decided.
The article

Here is also a link to Chuck McAllisters church-check the fruit and see for yourself is it mandriven and wordly or God centered. I encourage you to check both links for yourself.

Becoming A Purpose Driven Resistor- Learning To Just Say No!!

Why even be a Purpose Driven Resistor?
Isn’t Rick Warren doing some great things for God?
Why fight the Purpose Driven Life? Look how many books the guy has sold. Shouldn’t we just leave this alone and if its not of God it will go away (The Gamaliel excuse Acts 5:35-39 which is what many Christians quote if they don’t have the guts to act or speak against something that is not of the Lord Jesus-what about Buddhism and Hinduism-is that of God since its still around?-ask anyone who quotes that verse that question).

The first and best way to fight this movement is to pray. Pray that God will send a new hunger for His word among Christians. The best way to fight Rick Warrens man made movement is to get people to read the Bible and ask the Holy Spirit to lead them into all truth. If people compare Ricks teaching to scriptural teaching many will see that Emperor Rick is naked.

Problem 1 Rick Warren does not rightly divide the word of God. Ricks uses of multiple translations was my first red flag on purpose driven anything. I knew at that point that Rick picked and choose scripture to make his point.

Problem 2 Rick Warren constantly contradicts himself-Ive posted on this so scroll down and read the other articles. Here are a couple gems I found that may be of interest to you concerning this subject. The first one is from the man who profoundly influenced Rick namely Rober Schuller
The following quote is from a two hour interview with Michael Horton on The White Horse Inn radio program, Nov. 1992 (re-aired Aug. 10, 1997).

HORTON: Of course we would say that that the dual nature of Christ is a mystery but not a contradiction.SCHULLER: It is a contradiction, but you know what? Contradictions are ultimate points of creativity… end quote

Just something to think about. And when I did a search on the definition of contradiction I came up with this other gem from the Hegel glossary.
Contradiction”. . . the dialectic asserts that, when A is any category, except the Absolute Idea, whatever is A may be, and indeed must be, not-A also. . . . The dialectic does not reject [the] law [of contradiction]. An unresolved contradiction is, for Hegel as for every one else, a sign of error. The relation of thesis and antithesis derives its whole meaning from the synthesis, which follows them . . . . In fact, so far is the dialectic from denying the law of contradiction, that it is especially based on it. The contradictions are the cause of the dialectic process. But they can only be this if they are received as marks of error. . . . Truth consists, not of contradictions, but of moments which, if separated, would be contradictions, but which in their synthesis are reconciled and consistent.” J.M.E. McTaggart, Studies in the Hegelian Dialectic § 8.
To learn more about the Hagelian Dialectic Paul Proctor and Berit have some great articles.

Ricks message is self centered-PDL starts out with “Its not about you” and then centers the rest of the book on you. The Bible does not teach us to be lovers of self. Ricks whole movement is self centered and focused on man instead of God.

What do you think church should be like?

What kind of music do you like?

Ricks materials will make you think more about your self and your needs instead of God and worshipping God in spirit and in truth..
Its a very selfish movement.

Look at some of the fruit of the Purpose Driven movement
Amber Frey
This is a quote from my local newspaper the Modesto Bee
When first flipping on “Amber Frey: Witness for the Prosecution,” you might think you’ve stumbled across an infomercial for the bestselling book “The Purpose Driven Life.”
A quote from the spiritual self-help tome opens the CBS TV movie about Scott Peterson’s ex-girlfriend and references to it are peppered throughout the two-hour drama.
Amber is now doing speaking engagements.

Ashley Smith
Smith’s book will be released next week and will disclose that during the ordeal she gave him more than purpose. She also gave him methamphetamine. He initially asked her for marijuana, but since she was out of that drug, she supplied him with another.
Smith later told reporters how she had read Nicholas chapters from The Purpose Driven Life and she became an instant Christian celebrity. She quickly cashed in with a book and movie deal. She is also on the speaking circuit.
And of course there is the fruit of Richard Abanes unofficial spokesman for Rick Warren.

When you have a man made movement this is the fruit it will produce.
The most important reason to reject Rick Warren and his materials is because Rick denies Jesus Christ by not mentioning Jesus in articles and not telling the true gospel in articles like the Ladies Home Journal article. On the basis of this article alone we need to treat Rick like a unbeliever.

So what do you do when purpose driven comes to your church.
1.Educate people on how PDL and Rick Warrens teaching conflict with Gods word.
2. Don’t sign anything. Ive made it a practice not to sign anything in church-no membership agreements, not anything. We are already members of the Body of Christ if you are saved. No signature only belief in the saving gospel of Jesus Christ.
Rick and his gang has all kind of things for you to sign. Let your yes be yes and no mean no.
good link to articles

3.I think its really awful what Rick Warren will be doing in Rwanda do you think the people of Rwanda will have a choice to accept or reject Ricks man centered teaching? If you think they will have a choice once PDL is in place your wrong.
4. Do you want your church to end up like this-no matter how many people show up for services.

If you think thats ok-well pass the cool aid I guess.

Rick Warren is apostate and I believe Ricks movement is a part of the great falling away spoke of in 2Thess 2:3
Rick is not a pastor or a teacher no matter what he has on his name tag. Rick is a business man and a very, very good one at that. Rick Warren networks, uses group think, cell groups the whole ball of wax better than anyone that has come along except for maybe his false teacher buddy Paul Yonggi Cho. But Rick is part of a much bigger scheme I think. He is just one of many players to form the apostate church of the end times.

Is the church really growing because of Willow Creek, Saddleback etc..?
Nope attendance in the states is down we are just playing musical church chairs.

But there will always be a remnant.